Big 12 Expansion Candidates
by Idle on Jan 26, 2011 7:11 AM PST
Email
PrintI think the Big 12 has 4 options if they choose to expand:
BYU & Boise State
A North division of BYU, Boise State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri & Iowa State would be too weak compared to the Texas/Oklahoma division. They'd have to create an East/West alignment or pair the schools together & zipper down the middle.
Cincinnati & Louisville
Same situation as BYU/Boise State but on the Eastern half of the US. Much less travel than the other options.
San Diego State & UNLV
Would be added to the south with the Texas schools - allowing the Oklahoma schools to rejoin their former Big 8 rivals in the North, Could add some exposure playing in large destination cities.
Memphis & New Mexico
Would be added to the south with the Texas schools - allowing the Oklahoma schools to rejoin their former Big 8 rivals in the North. Much less travel than the other options.
TCU & Houston
The conference is adament about not adding any more teams to saturate the Texas market. As much as TCU & Houston would love to rejoin their former SWC rivals in an all-Texas division - it's not an option.
BYU Cougars, Provo Utah (Independant)
1.7 million people, 36th largest market (Salt Lake City + Provo)
8.1 wins/season past decade
75th ranked academically
averaged 64,000 fans in 2010, 100% capacity
coach makes $?
Boise State Broncos, Boise Idaho (Mountain West)
600 thousand people, 85th largest market
11.2 wins/season past decade
251st ranked academically
averaged 33,000 fans in 2010, 97% capacity
coach makes $1.5 million
UNLV Rebels, Las Vegas Nevada (Mountain West)
1.9 million people, 30th largest market
4.1 wins/season past decade
200th ranked academically
averaged 23,000 fans in 2010, 62% capacity
coach makes $500k
San Diego State Aztecs, San Diego California (Mountain West)
3.0 million people, 17th largest market
3.8 wins/season past decade
183rd ranked academically
averaged 25,000 fans in 2010, 35% capacity
coach makes $680k
Cincinnati Bearcats, Cincinnati Ohio (Big East)
2.2 million people, 24th largest market
7.8 wins/season past decade
156th ranked academically
averaged 34,000 fans in 2010, 97% capacity
coach makes $1.1 million
Louisville Cardinals, Louisville Kentucky (Big East)
1.3 million people, 42nd largest market
8.3 wins/season past decade
176th ranked academically
averaged 33,000 fans in 2010, 58% capacity
coach makes $1.6 million
New Mexico Lobos, Albuquerque New Mexico (Mountain West)
900 thousand people, 57th largest market
5.9 wins/season past decade
200th ranked academically
averaged 27,000 fans in 2010, 66% capacity
coach makes $750k
Memphis Tigers, Memphis Tennessee (C-USA West)
1.3 million people, 41st largest market
5.3 wins/season past decade
200th ranked academically
averaged 26,000 fans in 2010, 42% capacity
coach makes $750k
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boise state is 251st academically? that is terrible.
On february 5th 2011 at UFC 126 Jon "Bones" Jones will show the world that their was no need for the MMA community to hype this man because this guy is a beast with many skills and i personally will feel Ryan "Darth" Bader's pain after this fight. SB Nation's public enemy #1.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 26, 2011 7:56 AM PST reply actions
Yeah, we've conquered the blue-collar market there now...BUT, watch the next five to ten years as the higher level academics degrees are germinated and cultivated!!!
There’s a new strategy of developing comparable medical, science, and engineering degrees that will unequivocally set the uniersity on equal academic footing with PAC 12, Big 10, etc…
only problem is that maybe by that time, the conference expansion has gone to 16 team format with the four super confernce format as well.
but the athelete grad rate is pretty high in comparison to others’…
"… There are so many times in life that you’re just extremely disappointed and depressed and in the tank and you still have to perform and you still have to rally and you still have to move forward and that’s, to me, the lesson right now. That’s true toughness when you can perform at your best when you just don’t feel like it." Coach Petersen Nov, 2010
Don't forget the prestigious...
truck driving school…
Go Nevada Wolf Pack!
by BacksThePack on Jan 26, 2011 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
Boise State no longer has
a truck driving program. And you have no room to talk your school is in Reno Nevada one of the biggest dumps in the Country. Not to mention that aluminum bleacher erector set you call a stadium. Its like Las Vegas farted and Reno appeared in the high dessert. lol Sorry no one watched the macaroni and cheese bowl, I saw it had very low ratings. hahahahah best season in school history and no one cares LMAO
by BoiseState78 on Jan 27, 2011 2:46 AM PST up reply actions
Impressive.
Smug self-righteous judgment of others does not make you classy. Going out of your way to call people classless does not make you even classier.
by daedalus17 on Jan 27, 2011 8:43 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think Air Force is an option
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Totally an option...
the Big 12 touts itself as a pro-military conference, along with the Colorado area market they would be a great addition for the conference.
Air Force
and New Mexico to the Big 12……..
by Chris Holly Taylor on Jan 28, 2011 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
No.
Wouldn’t make sense to jump from something as stable as land to something as unstable as a ship that was built wrong.
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Bright Side of the Sun - Dedicated to Phoenix Suns basketball since 2006.
UNLV is going to have 4 losses this year!
The Suns are going to be 61-21 in the regular season this year!
;)
Twitter: @rebelfan1_
Not out of the question...
Jerry Jones, who is in the know at Arky, openly lobbied many of the Arkansas higher ups to “come home” to the Big 12 along with ND…
It could happen but like rebelfan1 says, now is not the time with the Big12 being unstable but Arkansas could make MORE money in the Big12, assuming they get that great TV contract and start the network (without TX and OU). Stability first then more money and its possible.
Honestly unless Texas leaves I don’t see anyway the Big 12 falls apart, most believe OU has hitched its wagon to TX and OSU to OU, Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Kansas St/Iowa St will hang around as long as Texas does…the only teams to worry about would be Mizzou and A&M. Like I said A&M would need to do a ton of politicking to move so I doubt that happens and the only way Mizzou leaves is for the Big Ten who would need to get ND for them to expand again unless its to NY with Rutgers and Syracuse. But if A&M leaves they could replace them with TCU and if Mizzou leaves grabbing Air Force and BYU is always an option, kicking out Iowa St and shifting the conference to the West would re-solidify it, and they eventually grab schools like New Mexico and UTEP if they improve in fb.
If we all go to super conferences I would love to see a new Southwest Conference with the old SWC schools (including Arkansas) plus OU/OSU/KU/K St/Mizzou…sorry Iowa St….
UNLV-SDSU and Memphis-New Mexico should be removed from the list.
They simply are not options.
Mountain West Connection - All you need to know about the Mountain West and then some.
Stampede Blue - An Indianapolis Colts blog.
Bright Side of the Sun - Dedicated to Phoenix Suns basketball since 2006.
UNLV is going to have 4 losses this year!
The Suns are going to be 61-21 in the regular season this year!
;)
Twitter: @rebelfan1_
I still think New Mexico is an option
They are the largest school in a growing state and are state university. They have a tie and rivalry with Texas Tech.
The fact that their football program is one of the worst in the nation doesn’t help them.
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
New Mexico isn't a bad option
But partnered with Memphis they definitely are. Air Force-BYU is a much better decision than Memphis-New Mexico
Mountain West Connection - All you need to know about the Mountain West and then some.
Stampede Blue - An Indianapolis Colts blog.
Bright Side of the Sun - Dedicated to Phoenix Suns basketball since 2006.
UNLV is going to have 4 losses this year!
The Suns are going to be 61-21 in the regular season this year!
;)
Twitter: @rebelfan1_
yes
if we are sticking to just those partners, yes…but those are/were arbitrary.
IF..the Big 12 Expanded (and I don’t think they will) I would list schools like this:
1)Arkansas
2)Notre Dame
3) BYU
4) Air Force
5) New Mexico
And….the first 2 are VERY long shots to say yes. So long…I’d almost hesitate to type them out.
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
CSU
I could see the Big 12 looking at CSU as an option to get back into the large Denver market. Possibly with Air Force or with BYU.
and all those empy seats?
The Big 12 right now has a guideline that any school has to have a stadium that seats 50k (which could be changed or waived). And CSU only seats 28K…and most of that is empty.
(and I got my 2nd degree from CSU)
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
Thats not quite a fair statement.
Even with how bad we were this year, we still had more seats sold for games than not. Whether they were filled at the end of halftime is a different story of course. Regardless, CSU has some serious work to do before the Big 12 would ever look at us. Support for the Rams is low in this state, and few are willing to drive up to the Fort from Denver to show support. That needs to change as well, until then a Big 12 membership is a pipe dream.
Seats aren't as important as tv viewership
I can’t argue with the fact that they don’t fill the stadium, although capacity is now over 34K because of the renovations several years back, (how long ago did you go there?)
But conference expansion has never been about butts in seats, and it’s only a little about athletic success. The fact is that its about television deals and which markets you can touch. Why else would the Pac-12 want CU? It’s the only reason Utah St and San Jose St were even mentioned in the MWC expansion talk. Denver has many times more CSU alums living there than Air Force. Denver is the 16th largest market according to Nielson ratings and those people will watch the games on tv, especially because they don’t like driving all the way up I-25 and then all the way through town to get to the stadium (and I know because I’m a season ticket holder)
TV is more important than stadium
BUT….stadium capacity and attendance is a measure of what the fans/alumni think of the university.
and it’s not all about TV population either. It’s about TV eyeballs. That’s why Nebraska was more valuable to the Big 10 than Missouri was. Missouri has far more people, but Nebraska has greater TV ratings.
And “all the way up i-25” is a key point. CSU fans aren’t passionate about their school. A&M has 80k..and it’s 2 hours from anywhere. K-state is almost 2 hours from KC..and they sell out. Okla. St, is an hour from OKC, and over an hour from Tulsa..and they still seat 40k….and OU fans make fun of them. CSU’s stadium doesn’t even seat 30K.
Like I said..I got my 2nd degree from CSU….but they are not a BCS level athletic program.
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
Good points
Your points are valid although I still don’t think attendance is as important at viewership.
And your seating capacity for Hughes is still wrong.
http://www.sports-venue.info/NCAAF/Hughes_Stadium.html
My thoughts on Big 12 expansion are...
that the Big 12 will either go East or West not both, in attempt to solidify the conference so they don’t get ripped apart again, so I think teams like SD St, UNLV, and Boise St are out for the next round of expansion but who knows anything could happen (i.e. TCU to the Big East).
There are a few team however, that I think the Big 12 may add regardless of which way expansion goes:
1st is TCU, if A&M leaves they are an obvious replacement to reinforce the TX market from the SEC.
2nd is Arkansas, because of its SWC ties plus it would better tie in Mizzou and make them less likely to bolt.
3rd of course is Notre Dame, who is a long shot but the uneven TV revenue distribution of the Big 12 plus allowing individual schools to have their own network may entice them, but if they join expanding East is the obvious choice
4th and finally is New Mexico, IF(<BIG IF) they improve in football to even the middle of the MWC would be a real possibility due to its large TV market, and they would help solidify the Western front along with Tech.
(Also most people including me would love to have LSU, their football and baseball would fit right in, but its such a near impossibility that is barely worth mentioning).
If they went West I think they would add Memphis, Louisville and maybe Cinncy, to go with Arky or ND.
If they went East I think they would add Air Force, BYU, and maybe Colorado St or UTEP to go with NM.
The irony here is that old SWC buddies Houston, Rice, and SMU have virtually no shot unless the state forces them into the conference (which is a possibility). The only other way I see them getting in is if KU and Mizzou join the Big Ten and the Big 12 South decides to cut their losses and dump K St and Iowa St and reform the SWC with them in quick fix attempt to guarantee they keep their AQ.
TCU
is a valuable school now. But not to the Big 12. They only become valuable if UT AND A&M both leave. Then TCU and Houston would have value to the Big 12. If UT and A&M both leave, though we could be talking new ball game entirely. UT right now has no reason to leave the Big 12.
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
I think losing A&M may give the Big 12 a reason to take TCU...
Basically adding TCU would be an attempt to quell the SEC’s influence (recruting & TV) into Texas, I could see adding Houston too possibly but I think TCU is most likely now in an AQ. But generally I think you’re right as of now TCU has no shot if UT or A&M leave it becomes a possibility still not a sure thing unless both leave like you said.
BTW Redhawk you did a really good piece on C&C about the UT network, I feel like a troll posting there so I thought I’d give you some props over here…quick OU question….is OU agressively attempting to raise their academic standings in hope of getting into the AAU in a few years? And if so do you think it will hurt your football programs, while I love UT, their high academic standings restrict us from offering many players scholarships and recently I’ve notice that was happening to yall a little more (i.e. Trey Metoyer)
Why would Oklahoma try getting into the AAU?
Aspirations of the Big 12(read 10)?
Go Nevada Wolf Pack!
by BacksThePack on Jan 27, 2011 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
Many of the Big 12 members are AAU...
Joining the AAU would make them more attractive for future conference realignment and give them more grant money. I have no doubt that OU would make it in a good conference on its own, however since they are attached to Okie St it may be slighly more difficult to get into the Pac12/BigTen (not SEC) without Texas, an AAU membership would help offset that disparity for possible moves to the Pac12 if Texas goes independent. Also a move with Texas to the Big Ten could also still be possible IF OU gets an AAU membership.
AAU members of the Big 12 are/were Texas, A&M, Kansas, Iowa St, Mizzou, Nebraska, and Colorado. Oklahoma is the only Big 12 state without an AAU affiliatiated school, and they are the flagship school of the state. With the sole exception of OU, the only non AAU schools in the Big 12 are either old AG/A&M schools (K St/AG, Okie St/A&M, and Texas Tech/almost part of TAMU) or private religious school (Baylor/Baptist). That makes Oklahoma look a little odd and stand out, since its associated academically with the State schools and not the AAU schools of the Big 12.
While their athletics are extremely attractive to all their academics currently are not but if they get AAU memberships they will be just as atractive as A&M, Mizzou, and KU. BTW Texas Tech and Houston are also pursuing AAU membership too now that they have achieved Tier 1 status.
this is all true
but….OU wouldn’t be so different from the SEC state schools….Which would be where OU would lean first if the super-16 Conferences happened.
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
AAU membership
brings a certain level of prestige, and a stamp of approval. It helps to get Federal and even private research money to have AAU membership. AND…schools are really about academics and not athletics (shocking…but true)
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
OU and AAU
no…sadly. Takes money to get that kind of research level. OU has opted for a more specific to become a top school, in a few select areas of research rather than the depth that AAU would take.
OU has raised their academics a bunch over the years…but they were at one point pretty low, so I’m really not saying much there.
(and thanks for the props on the article)
Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com)
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