Why Not Houston To The Mountain West?

If you guys lose BYU, then the sales pitch to Houston gets a little harder (ignoring the rumors of merged championship games and whatnot). MWC is still going to be better than C-USA at the top, with Boise & TCU looking better than the revolving door of Tulsa/ECU/Southern Miss/UCF that C-USA has, but just below that CUSA compares very favorably with Air Force, Wyoming, CSU, etc.

In CUSA, Houston has a much more appealing travel base- Houston currently has six conference-mates within 500 miles, while the closest other MWC member besides TCU is well beyond that. Greenville, NC is closer to Houston than the farther-flung MWC schools, and they only have to take the football team there once every four years.

Moreover, Houston won’t replace BYU, or Utah for that matter- their last four years are 10-4, 8-5, 8-5, 10-4. 6-6 before that run. They haven’t made it through C-USA unbeaten since realignment (to be fair, nobody has). But even if they think they are the best team in the league, they may not be in such a hurry to add at least two teams that can compete on their level every year.

Houston certainly might go for the Mountain West, I’m just saying it’s not a cut and dry choice from their perspective.

After being down for years, the Cougars are charging. After being hired in June of 2009,
atheletic director Mack Rhoades made five Houston Cougars head coaching changes,
re-did the contracts of three others, and made numerous other changes.

Football recruiting has improved significantly as shown by the following from Rivals.com:

The football team was ranked in the top 25 in 2009 for the first time since September 17, 1991.
Season tickers are up 82.5-percent over 2009.

Since being hired in March of 2010, basketball coach James Dickey has an outstanding
recruiting class.

The article was not written to get into a competition, although that does provide interest.
I became fired-up because some people, particularly in Texas, make comments about
the academics at Houston which are absolutely untrue.

Many Houston Cougar fans have mixed feeling about the possilbility of joining MWC.
If that were to happen, I would like to see: Houston, UTEP, and SMU added. That
would ease some of the travel concerns.

In any event, the MWC is excellent.

Best wishes for a great season to all.

VA Libertarian stated 3 of 4 Houston’s victories over SEC teams
were against Miss. State.
True, but the other one was over LSU. Not a bad team.
In 2007, if Houston completed a pass on the last play of the game,
it would have defeated Alabama on Alabama’s home field.
Their not a bad team either.

I posted on the MWC site because Houston and some MWC teams are in similar situations.
Over time, they may help each other.

All I want to say to “VA Libertarian” is “Down boy, your fresh bone will be there soon”.

Every argument for adding Houston to the MWC has been disputed.

Unless I read it incorrectly, analysis by rebelfan1 indicates adding Houston
provides 3-4 million additional dollars to every MWC team annually.
Please, correct this if I read it incorrectly.

http://www.mwcconnection.com/2010/8/23/1637047/my-idea-of-whats-really-going-on

My idea of what’s really going on in this round of expansion

I like many Houston fans am not sure this would result in a good situation
for Houston, but I did want to provide some information about the school
and its athletics. I also don’t know if it has to be Houston to the exclusion
of other school(s).

I wonder how this analysis will be disputed?

“The fact that few people in Houston even care about the Cougars…”

If no one cares, why have their seasons tickets doubled this year
and why will they be on television at least 11 times this season?

Fortunately, for Houston Cougar fans some
of the numbers presented in these posts are
out of date. What these numbers represent is
just how much athletics had been allowed to
languish. For decades the athletic department
had little or no support from the administration.
As example, the $400 marketing budget for basketball
was true. Its not difficult to imagining a fan saying
"if that’s all its worth to them, why should I
care". With little financial support from the
administration, the fans deserted the programs.

It has taken a long time to build it to its present
state. Fans are returning. Football attendance was up
17% in 2009 over 2008. I have seen numbers on the
latest season tickets, but can’t find them now. The
last one was approximately double the prior year.
There is good reason to expect attendance to be up
again this year.

Recruiting is up: 2008(100), 2009(61), and 2010(45)
by Rivals.com.

Financial support is up. There has been a lot of
spending in the last year.

The quality of coaches is up. Sumlin is definitely
an improvement over Briles. When Penders did not
build the basketball program where metrics showed
sustainable improvement, he was replaced. When
Noble’s program fell, he was replaced by Todd Whitting
from the successful TCU program.

At last, people are beginning to believe the program
is headed in the right direction and there is confidence
in the leadership. No one expects an invite from an
automatic qualifiying conference. But, expectations for
wins are sky high. Recruiting is up, support is up,
attendance is up. Fans don’t just think they can have
good seasons. They now expect to dominate CUSA, not just
this year, but every year.

UH president Dr. Renu Khator said: "I want the University
of Houston to be Tier One, which includes Tier One
academically and Tier One athletically".
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/houston/6821653.html

Mack Rhoades was hired as athletic director June 11,
2009. I think he was promised support to do what he
believed necessary. "Reading between the lines"
I believe he looked at the history and said "we’ll see".
He did not sign his contract until more than a year passed.
During that year, he made five head coaching changes,
re-did the contracts of three others, and made numerous
other changes including repairing the showers.

Forget the $400. The buyouts for Tom Penders and
Rayner Noble were each in the hundreds of thousands.
The study for new football and basketball facilities
cost $250,000.

After his first year, Sumlin’s contract was renegotiated.
His buyout decreases if UH does not break ground on a
stadium project by Jan. 3, 2011. It appears both
Mack Rhoades and Kevin Sumlin are playing hard ball.

It seems unlikely, the president would set this in motion
and then withdraw support. The AD is doing exactly what
he was hired to do. She intensely wants Tier One in academics
and athletics and has worked hard on the state funding and on
efforts to build research dollars. They have worked hard to
build the quality of the colleges and departments. Now, with
state funding, rising to Tier One academically is realistic.

Cougar fans are delighted with the events that
are occurring. When UTEP arrives at Robertson stadium
on September 10, they will be greeted by a sea of red
in a rockin full stadium.

The efforts and resources for Tier One academically are:


Texas House Bill 51 authorizes vote on money to create Tier One universites

Voters Approve Tier One Funds – a clear road map to reach the next level

How close is UH to Tier One

VA Libertarian
Let me preface this by writing that I don’t know for sure whether a move to the Mountain West Conference would be good for the University of Houston or for the MWC. To my way of thinking, the college football landscape is changing so much that, in a few years, we probably won’t recognize it . Where there is now one Notre Dame, soon there will be one ND and a bunch of wanna bees i.e. Texas, BYU, USC etc. The list goes on. Seems like every good size school fancies itself a Notre Dame. Maybe UT or BYU can draw a national audience. I doubt it but who knows? My guess is that while there are, at best, a dozen or so teams who now have the consistent possibility of playing for a National Championship, in the future there will be less. The wanna bees and ND will form something akin to a super conference of independents. If the wanna bees succeed, then the real conference affiliations that are left will likely exist to divide a shrinking football pie. It took 15 or so years for those left out of the BCS to bang down the current BCS door. It will probably take much longer to break down the next.

That being said, I don’t understand, VA Libertarian, why you insist on promoting the MWC prospects (no pun intended) of UTEP seemingly at the sole expense of the University of Houston. What did Houston do to you? If UTEP can bring more to the table so be it. If they are not yet ready, take heart, they still might be in a few years. For now though, no offense to the many fine Miner alums, Texas El Paso simply is not in the same class as Houston. Not academically (as you submit) , nor athletically (as you suggest) and not as a city (as you advocate). And all of the shouting (and cussing) you do won’t change that.

First academics:
You seem to dismiss the fact that Houston has several nationally ranked academic departments. I must ask, which departments at UTEP are ranked? According to the Princeton Review, Houston ranks ahead of UTEP in pretty much every academic category you can name. Without boring everyone here with stats, you claim to be able to read an almanac, look it up for yourself: http://www.princetonreview.com/

Now to athletics.
You seem to reject the U of H, claiming that they are a “commuter school” which nobody in Houston cares about. And because Texas Western won a basketball championship in 1966, that makes them better. You want to dis the Cougars’ 16 National Championships in golf. Soooo, I suppose that no one, including you, has ever heard of Bill Rogers, Steve Elkington, or Bruce Lietzke? How about John Mahaffey or Fred Couples? Or, more to the point, you claim the 4 recent football wins against SEC opponents mean little or are somehow tainted. I must ask, in the last 20 years, have the Miner’s gotten within 40 points of an SEC football opponent? What about about UTEP’s record against the Big XII? Isn’t it true that last year alone Houston beat more Big XII opponents then UTEP has in their entire football history? If you want to run with the big boys you have to show that you can beat them. You assert that UTEP, from El Paso, can out draw Houston. So what. While El Paso is a nice and, in places, pretty city it is also a border town. It’s nowhere near the dynamic, world class city that is Houston. Help me out, where is the growth potential in El Paso? I know you are passionate about promoting your alma matter but let’s, for a moment, assume they could get all of the fans and all of the TV’s in the Greater El Paso Area. And, lets assume that ten years down the road the numbers doubled or even tripled. It would still have little to no effect on the MWC’s television package. Isn’t TV money what’s driving this whole re-alignment thing?

Lastly, on the one hand you want to dismiss Houston as a boring, nothing to do city while on the other, you claim that the Cougars can’t draw because there are "6 or 7 options ahead of them". Which is it? Of course there is allot to do in Houston. And, of course this will water down the U of H’s fan base. Frankly though, the biggest problem the Cougars have isn’t the sports options in Houston, it’s the fact that UT, A&M and to a lesser extent Tech, don’t want to share the pie that is Houston recruiting and the dollars it provides. And yes, recruiting is a huge factor. Your answer to this seems to be no more then something akin to “no it isn’t”. Well, yes it is, despite the fact that some recruits slip out of Texas. You submit that because there are Houston players on teams around the country, that those same teams wouldn’t be better off by playing in Houston. Really? That’s what you want to go with? In fact, there is a reason that so many Big XII teams and others schedule games at or in Houston. Rice never has a problem filling their schedule :-). Fact is, playing in Houston can help any Coach who knows what to do with a personal appearance. Do you really believe that a Coach in Idaho has the same recruiting advantage in Houston as a Coach from Lubbock playing in Houston? If the MWC wants to compete nationally against conferences like the Big XII, and grab onto a BCS auto bid, than it will have to establish a Texas base. Like it or not, that’s where the TV’s are. TCU alone can’t make this happen. For all of it’s many positives, can UTEP really help the Mountain West do that? The U of H has won at the highest levels before, is winning now and will do so again. Let the Cougars get out from under the thumbs of A&M and UT and it will be interesting to see what they can achieve. Will a move to the Mountain West help them accomplish this? Who knows, but I’m betting that the University of Houston, located in the nation’s 4th largest city, is a sleeping giant and is probably worth a look, at least, from any conference.

The aforementioned post was my first and there were allot of posts to read before this one so I just skimmed some of them. I tuned out about the time the cussing started.

Lets talk
¶ 1. "I never said UTEP was a better school…"
Maybe you can help me with my comprehension. On August 25th you said about the U of H: "For 95% of the students there, the academics are poor." Where does this figure come from? And, how is it an "amateur’s game" to suggest that the academic record of Houston far out shines that of UTEP? Because you will lose that argument? If I’m wrong, show me where.

¶ 2. "Next, UTEP has won more than just the 1966 basketball championship…"
Man, I hate to get into this argument because I really liked that team but, since you brought it up. "Infinitely more important"? That’s a stretch. Any of the guys on the ‘66 team make it in the NBA? Maybe one? Another of them, I seem to recall made the Globe Trotters.
Phi Slamma Jama set the tone for up tempo college basketball that is still being played today. Nuf said.
Also, there are allot of fans around the country that believe what put college basketball on the map was the so called "Game of The Century" in ‘67 at the Astrodome between UCLA and Houston. 50,000 plus in attendance (most probably pulling for UCLA – right?) and a national TV audience.

 ¶ 3. "I also firmly believe that UTEP could very well have beaten…"
Welp, here is my comprehension problem kicking in again. 5A high schools? Really? What I’m hearing is a bunch of woulda, shoulda, coulda. The U of H did! And, I’m hearing no mention of UTEP’s record against the Big XII. What was that again?

¶ 4. "Now, onto your next ‘rant."sic
Sorry about falsely aligning you with UTEP. You write like a Miner faithful :-)

¶ 5. "As for your dismissal of El Paso…"
I didn’t dis El Paso. I simply pointed out that it has nothing approaching the marketing power of Houston. Care to disagree?
Actually, I have business in El Paso on occasion and a few close friends who are from there. I like the Mexican food but the seafood sucks. If you can’t find a good local chain in Houston you don’t know where to look. How bout Ninfa’s (born a few blocks from the U of H campus). The bar scene on Westheimer is quirky but fun. Aside from the "bars" though maybe you can educate me. What major corporations are headquartered in El Paso? Exxon? No, that would be Houston. How bout Apache Corp, Marathon Oil, Shell, United Space Alliance, Schlumberger, MetroCorp Bancshares, James Coney Island or Shipley Donuts. Woops, those would all be Houston too. And, if you are sick, I’ll bet El Paso is the place to go. Right? Need I go on? While we’re on the subject I would think that a December trip to balmy Houston to play football would be quite pleasant compared to most places north of there.

¶ 6. "Also, there’s no inconsistency between claiming the Cougars…"
Maybe you have a source the rest of us don’t. How do you know how teams rank in popularity in Houston? Is there a list? As to "cultureless (sic) or cookie cutter?" Do I really need to provide links to the Houston Symphony, Houston Grande Opera or even the Miller Outdoor Theatre? Your boorishness is getting off putting. It makes you seem less intelligent then you might be.

¶ 7. "Finally, no team in discussion here is really…"
Again, how do you know this? If attendance is all you got you are barking up the wrong tree. For now at least, UTEP is about topped out. Houston may be behind but they can grow forever.

¶ 8. "My arguments for UTEP center around the ideas that…"
"a.) Houston’s recent success won’t be lasting"
How do you know? Crystal ball?

"b.) Even with Houston’s success, they can’t draw a crowd…"
If you would have read my post, I was talking about a huge potential and the possibility that the MWC and U of H can help each other. UTEP, despite your good intentions bring nada to the table in the way of growth potential or TV potential.

"c.) The academics are about the same"
Ha, only if you consider UTEP’s "amateur" standing :-)

"d.) Neither school will factor into the BCS evaluation…"
Maybe not this time but isn’t growth for the future what we are talking about? Is El Paso on a growth pattern that will catch Houston any time in this lifetime?

¶ 9. "Furthermore, my primary points for UTEP are as follows…"
"1.) There’s a history of reckless expansion that doesn’t always have the best long-term…"
Long term. Hmm, maybe my "comprehension" is getting the better of me again but I could have sworn that in my earlier post I wrote about the potential of El Paso vs. that of Houston and came to the conclusion that they weren’t even close. Not three lines ago you wrote of "long term expansion" now you’re against it. What’s up with that?

"2.) UTEP has a long history with over half of the teams in the conference, whereas Houston only has a history with TCU"
Yep, a long standing rivalry with the current conference champ. In a market the MWC desperately needs.

"3.) UTEP has vastly better attendance…"
C’mon, "vastly better"? Really? For 2009 UTEP averaged 29010. Houston averaged 25242 and had the 14th largest increase in the nation. Do you really believe that’s your best selling point? And how many TV sets can they bring to the table? Houston’s attendance is growing and will continue to grow. Also, what looks better on TV, 25K in a stadium that seats 32K or 29K in a stadium that seats 52K? Get real!

"4.) UTEP is a much better geographic fit…"
Really? The U of H campus is exactly 269.9 miles from that of TCU. Flight time, depending on the airline, from almost anywhere west to Houston Intercontinental would be about the same as to DFW.

"5.) Hispanics are the fastest growing future demographic, and they love UTEP way more than they love the Cougars…"
Again, how do you know this? Is this a joke? Most of the "Hispanics" I know like soccer and maybe the Houston Dynamo. BTW, Does El Paso have an MLS team? Didn’t think so.

"6.) UTEP has 21 men’s Division 1 national championships…"
Again, help me out, my "comprehension" is a little weak. UTEP’s last Cross Country Championship was in 1983 (that one was vacated and awarded to Wisconsin), before that it was 1981. Their last Indoor Track and Field Championship was in 1982, Their last Outdoor Track and Field Championship was in also in 1982. Boy, that oughtta help the MWC.
 
"7.) There’s a massive hypocrisy factor for MWC fans…"
Hypocrisy? You think it is hypocritical for the MWC to pick Houston because they think the U of H can help the Conference? Wow my logic must be as good as my comprehension.

"8.) When Sumlin leaves, the MWC will really regret adding Houston…"
Let me get this straight. You think Kevin Sumlin is more of a threat to leave Houston than Mike Price is to leave UTEP? And Sumlin’s leaving would have more of an impact at Houston then Price’s leaving would have at UTEP? I don’t know why but the word "hypocritcal" keeps coming into my head.

Is it too late for Houston to help MWC?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/houston/7175396.html

Others may(probably do) have a different opinion, but mine is:

1. The MWC will not extend an invitation to the Cougars unless it would help in obtaining AQ status.
2. Houston would not join the MWC unless AQ status was a certainty.
3. Probably neither of the above will occur.
4. There is no poll, but my guess is a large majority of the Cougars fans don’t want to be in the MWC.
5. Houston will have an outstanding football season.
    Attendance will be up. Recruiting will be better. At least 10 TV appearances. BCS bowl?

Rivals 2010 Ranking
=====
 32 Utah
 40 Brigham Young
 45 Houston
 46 TCU
 52 Fresno State
 53 Southern Miss
 56 UCF
 57 Memphis
 58 Colorado State
 71 Marshall
 73 San Diego State
 73 Tulsa
 76 Southern Methodist
 79 East Carolina
 80 New Mexico
 82 Boise State
 83 UTEP
 91 UAB
 95 Nevada
100 UNLV
100 Wyoming
105 Rice
108 Air Force

There are facts and there are opinions. Generally, I prefer facts.

Texas has two public Tier One Universities: Texas A&M University and University of Texas – Austin.
Approximately, 150 million research dollars annually are needed to obtain this status. Only one university
in Texas is over half way toward this goal(HOUSTON).

                                    Top 25 26-50 Research
                                    Measures Measures * $1000
Public Texas A&M University 7 2 543,888 14 228,363 21 6,259,791 3
Public University of Texas – Austin 7 2 446,765 20 289,331 12 6,895,038 2
Public University of Houston – University Park 3 73,542 108 40,116 113 596,925 37
Texas Tech University 57,878 169 123 Public
University of Texas – El Paso 39,965 190 141 Public

The Top American Research Universities

There are facts and there are opinions. Generally, I prefer facts.

Sorry folks, I cleaned it up for my friend.

Texas has two public Tier One Universities: Texas A&M University and University of Texas – Austin.
Approximately, 150 million research dollars annually are needed to obtain this status.
Only one university in Texas is over half way toward this goal(HOUSTON).

                                                                  Research
                                                                  * $1000
Public Texas A&M University 543,888
Public University of Texas – Austin 446,765
Public University of Houston – University Park 73,542
Texas Tech University 57,878
University of Texas – El Paso 39,965

The Top American Research Universities

There are facts and there are opinions. Generally, I prefer facts.

So VA Lib
By now I’m sure you’ve read since1670‘s post on Academic’s. Any questions? Or, is your only response still some version of "…Tier II…"? Maybe it’s you who "don’t get it"!

As for the City of Houston vs other cities. You’ve mentioned "assuming things". Well, I don’t live in Houston, I’ve lived in Austin since 1980. And, I can tell you that no one I know would take a kid to 6th street after a football game or any other time. It can be fun but it’s also one of the most dangerous places in town. As I’ve said Houston is a world class city in every way. You want to belittle it but you are either speaking from ignorance or speaking to what you hope is ignorance. I can’t believe I actually have to do this but here is a link to several dozen clubs in Houston:
http://www.houston.com/nightlife/
None of them chains. Take a look, you might learn something or at least have a good time.
As for travel to Houston from MWC schools. A quick look at travelocity.com offers this:
A flight from Denver to Houston costs $224 and takes 2h 24min
A flight from Denver to El Paso costs $204 and takes 1h 44 min.
From Salt Lake to Houston costs $314 and takes 3h flat.
From Salt lake to El Paso costs $314 and takes 3h 44 min.
From Albuquerque to Houston costs $274 and takes 2h 2min.
From Albuquerque to El Paso costs $268 and takes 4h 4 min.
Need I go on? How about Vegas to Houston. Costs $304 and takes 2h 43min. To El Paso costs $304 and takes 3h 26 min. I didn’t cherry pick these to make a point, I picked the best available prices with the best available times to both cities.
In a word then, what increased travel cost? In dollars? In time? As I said, Houston is a big time city. That includes having a big time airport :-)

Now to athletics. You keep harping on attendance but, using your own numbers UTEP’s attendance was off somewhere north of 25% last year (5 year ave. of 38000 – 2009 – 29010) while Houston was up. You dubiously claim that the U of H can’t be supported in Houston because of so much sports competition yet consider this. Absent a miracle, the Astros season is over in September. The Texans play on Sunday usually on alternate Sundays from the U of H. But, for a minute lets say the Texans play the same weekend. Wouldn’t a UH vs TCU Saturday followed by a Texans vs whoever game Sunday make for a fun weekend? Even if there might be a scheduling conflict with the Rockets, the Toyota Center only seats 18,300. And, the Dynamo plays in Robertson stadium. Conflict? To assume that one can’t support the Texans, Astros along with the U of H is ludicrous. Austin is 180 miles from Houston while College Station is 100. I’ve already touched on Houston’s problem with the Aggies and the Longhorns and given it as the one reason this might be a good move for the Cougars. Did you get that Mr. comprehension? The one reason this might be a good move for the Cougars. You keep talking (wishing) about the "deep history" of UTEP football. Within the last 25 years (about the time of UTEP’s last "National Championship"… in track) Houston has beaten Texas, Texas A&M, Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Missouri and Nebraska. They’ve also beaten, Miss. State, LSU, Illinois, Minnesota, Arizona State, UNC and Pitt. In short they’ve beaten teams from every BCS conference and most of the mid majors. Some of them multiple times. I know you want to belittle their accomplishments but c’mon, work with me here. Who has UTEP beaten? Son, I’m sorry to have to sound like I’m picking on UTEP but you are dreaming. The MWC is looking for help at the National level aiming at an automatic BCS bid. UTEP’s time may come, I hope it does, but at this time, UTEP is a barely a national minnow.

Va Lib,

- Houston has just played (and won) in front of the largest home crowd in its history: 32,119
- By Saturday’s kickoff, total season tickets were at 11,500, compared with the previous record of 6,300
- Fewer than 5,000 tickets remain for three of the seven home games, and there are no more than 7,500 left for any of them

’Nuff said.