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The case for UTEP over Houston

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WHY UTEP OVER HOUSTON

Adrian Mac over at Miner Rush laid out an excellent case for UTEP’s inclusion in the Mountain West in an article last April, but I thought I’d take this time to expand the case for the Miners. With MWC Commissioner Craig Thompson’s strike-first inclusion of Nevada and Fresno State, the conference has been abuzz with talk of a 12th team and a conference championship game. Now that it looks as though BYU’s quest for independence has all but fallen apart, this talk of a 12th team is more or less necessary, as functioning at 11 teams is sloppy and unprofessional (as evidenced by the Big Ten in years past). As result, many within the Mountain West community have strongly begun pushing for the Houston Cougars, and when viewing potential members at a cursory glance, it’s hard to blame them. However, upon deeper investigation, I’d like to think we can all realize that UTEP is the far wiser choice. Why? Here’s 7 reasons to ponder:

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1. The History of (Reckless) Expansion

Lest everyone forget, part of the reason the WAC so foolishly expanded to 16 teams was to grab ‘market shares’ in large metropolitan areas. That’s why you saw teams like SMU, San Jose State, Rice, UNLV, etc. get the big invite – they were supposedly going to bring their markets with them. Now, fairly enough, many of you can toss aside SMU and Rice as small private schools, but UNLV and San Jose State didn’t/haven’t exactly brought in their large markets either (for those keeping score at home, San Jose is the 31st-largest metro area, and part of the 6th-largest Combined Statistical Area, for example).

Now, as everyone here well knows, this blunder of a 16-team WAC led 8 schools to break off and form the vastly-superior Mountain West, of which we are all greatly appreciative of today. Among those eight were 4 of the 6 founding members of the WAC (BYU, Utah, Wyoming & UNM), one of the first two expansion schools from 1967 (Colorado State), one of the two schools included after the AZ schools left in 1978 (San Diego State), Air Force (who was added in 1980), and UNLV (who was crammed in from the recent WAC expansion, but had been recently good at basketball and was in a large and growing market). What’s forgot is who was left behind. UTEP was the *other* expansion school from 1967, which resulted in a long and rivaled history with many of the MWC’s founding institutions. Somehow, however, UTEP was left behind (alongside Hawai’i, 1978’s other expansion team). Surely, part of this was the desire to have (at the time) an 8-team league, but it was tragic nevertheless.

So what’s the point of this argument plank?
a.) UTEP has a long, traditional history with many of the MWC institutions, and was left out in the early days of the MWC somehow.
b.) A blind, greedy grab for market share doesn’t always work out for the best. The recruits didn’t exactly pour in either.
c.) Houston has no history with MWC institutions aside from TCU. That is, Houston has *no* history with MWC institutions aside from TCU.

[For those voting on the main page, there are *6 more reasons* to pick UTEP over Houston after the jump!]

Star-divide

2. Rivalries

New Mexico going through a down period certainly isn’t bolstering their strength to argue, but this rivalry is a great one, and would make an excellent addition to conference play. Moreover, as I’ve stated above, UTEP has a history with other MWC schools that lasted 32 years (BYU, New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State), 21 years (San Diego State), or 19 years (Air Force).

The glory years of WAC basketball also revolved around a rivalry between a MWC school (BYU) and UTEP – a rivalry which produced an incredible series of games over the course of two decades (80s, 90s).

Adrian Mac’s take from SB Nation's UTEP site:

Let's not discount the fact that for 32 years (1967-1999) the Miners were in the WAC with BYU, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado State.  The WAC's storied basketball history was built on a ferocious rivalry between UTEP and BYU during the 1980's and early 1990's.  UTEP is a natural geographic rival for New Mexico.  We're not talking artificial rivalries here.  BYU and UTEP hated each other.  Don't believe me?  Watch this.

The Miners and New Mexico are natural geographic rivals as they share common recruiting grounds.  When an El Pasoan burns UTEP and goes to UNM, he instantly becomes despised.  I remember Lobo All-American Kenny Thomas, a former EP Austin standout, getting booed time and time again when the Lobos played UTEP.  So, do booing and fights make for a compelling argument for conference admission?  Not exactly.  But, it doesn't hurt.  Full stadiums look good on television. I don't see a lot of football fans getting riled up for Nevada vs. San Diego State in San Diego or Reno.  How many fans might go to that one?  16,000?   I don't see the masses in Houston blowing off an Astros game to watch the Coug's take on Wyoming.... in anything. 

3. Attendance & Fan Support

Again, as Adrian Mac has wonderfully noted before, UTEP has much better attendance and fan support than UofH does. Not only that, but when one looks at the long history of Houston football attendance, one would *surely* want to second-guess an inclusion of the Cougars. There were many years were UofH struggled to draw 20,000, with noticeable average attendance figures hovering around 15,000. That’s not exactly the kind of fan support one would expect to see for a team to be included in a BCS-caliber conference.

Note that Adrian Mac is also quick to point out how, despite residing in the *massive* DFW market, and despite an undefeated regular season in 2009, TCU failed to draw significant attendance numbers in comparison. Why? Because people don’t care that much about TCU football in DFW. I hate to break it to y’all, but it isn’t much different in Houston. Even during the Cougs’ best years, they fail to out-draw the Miners.

In 2009, Houston, "ranked just 80th in 2009 with a 25,242 attendance average in six home games."

From an article covering Houston’s wins-to-attendance ratio,

"To say that the University of Houston football program has a nagging attendance problem would be an understatement. For having an enrollment in excess of 33,000 students (the third-largest university in the state behind Texas and Texas A&M) and being located in the fourth-largest city in the United States, attendance at UH sporting events such as football simply sucks. Of the 117 schools currently playing division I-A football, Houston ranks towards the bottom in terms of attendance, with higher crowd numbers than a handful of schools, like Akron or Louisiana-Monore, but with gameday crowds well below those of other urban public schools like Louisville or Memphis and nowhere near those of flagship state schools like Texas or Louisiana State. Many seasons, schools like Michigan or Tennessee will attract more fans to see a single game than the University of Houston will attract in an entire season of five or six home games."

 

Adrian Mac’s take:

 

Take a look at the following chart comparing attendance figures at UTEP and the candidates identified by the MW-Connection.

Football/Basketball Attendance Figures for 2009 & 5 Year Average (From NCAA)

School

Football 2009 Att.

5 Year Avg.

Basketball 2009

5 Year Avg.

Boise State

32,782

31,192

4,044

4,263

Fresno State

33,578

37,118

8,969

10,621

Nevada

17,500

17,086

6,953

7,924

Houston

25,242

20,935

3,814

4,326

Tulsa

22,502

23,107

5,783

5,752

SMU

21,348

18,078

2,835

2,806

UTEP

29,010

38,843

8,675

9,125

 

I included basketball attendance to show a broader point.  Whenever expansion talk happens, Houston and SMU will instantly be mentioned because they are in huge media markets.  What difference does it make if you are in the nation's 5th or 10th largest media market if nobody in those markets cares to see you live or on TV in college athletics two marquee sports?  Houston has over 30,000 students at their campus yet they average under 21,000 fans at football games over 5 years.  SMU get's 2,800 a game in basketball.  There are good high school programs in Dallas that could get more fans than that.  Really.

Over the last five years (I used 5 years because the NCAA site only has team by team attendance through 2004), UTEP has averaged more football fans per game than all of the other teams mentioned.  Fresno State is right there.  Boise packs their stadium, and I'm sure if they added more seats they'd be full too.  The other schools simply have atrocious local support.  Houston had their most successful season in 20 years, and had a home game with Texas Tech on their schedule, yet they still averaged 4,000 less fans a game than UTEP who probably had their most disappointing season under Mike Price in 2009.  SMU has a beautiful campus and has lots of tradition.  But, in a year where they made a bowl game, they averaged under 22k fans a home game.  Doesn't Odessa Permian beat that at Ratliff?

UTEP, even in bad seasons, has incredible city wide support that dwarfs the love Houston, SMU, and Tulsa get in their respective cities.  When Coach Price has UTEP winning, the Miners will easily average over 40,000 per game on the gridiron and sellouts are common (52,000).  In basketball, most El Paso fans still don't know where or what "Marshall" is but there are still over 9,000 at the Don per home game.  Even in years where Houston and SMU made huge strides in football, their local support doesn't come near UTEP's.  Imagine when they have down years. And, they will.

Houston and Dallas are professional sports towns.  And when locals take the time to follow college sports, they follow the Big 12.  That's the honest truth. TCU was a point or two away from the BCS National Championship Game and they had all of one sellout in Ft. Worth this year.  Why so bad?  Even TCU's Cancellor blames their attendance woes on "conference affiliation."  If Dallas doesn't support a MWC team that's as good as TCU, how will they treat SMU?

 

4. Geography

The geographical question goes beyond the obvious superior proximity of El Paso to other member institutions compared to Houston. Rather, the case is much deeper than this.

First and foremost, El Paso has a lot more in common with other MWC cities than Houston does. El Paso is arid and dry, with beautiful mountains (yes, actual mountains!) and gorgeous weather (there’s a reason they have the Sun Bowl there). Houston, in comparison, is a humid, muggy Hellhole with an inescapable pollution issue.

Second, UTEP, like most Mountain West schools, is on Mountain Time. That’s great. Yes, TCU is already a MWC example on Central Time, but I like the idea of trying to keep the conference within at most 2 time zones. I couldn’t even imagine the headache I would have endured going to school in the SEC if we were stretched across 3 time zones beyond a mere aberration (TCU).

Third, I don’t know how many of y’all have ever been to both of these cities before, but let me tell you something: El Paso is a *HELL* of a lot more fun than Houston. Not only does El Paso have a uniquely wonderful cultural and nightlife scene, but it’s a skip away from Mexico, which is a blast. Houston, in comparison, is a stuffy corporate city without much of a culture. Sure, all the oil barons there were sure to pony up for nice museums and whatnot, but any quick visit to the city will tell you that there just seems to be something missing there.

5. Demographics

Any consideration of a business model with an eye towards the future *has* to be mindful of changing demographic patterns. In this regard, it doesn’t take a genius to realize that Hispanics are the fastest-growing demographic of the economy, and that El Paso is obviously more in tune with Hispanics than Houston is (Houston tried naming its soccer team in honor of the Texas revolutionary victory over Mexico, for pete’s sake – not too culturally considerate). As a border city, El Paso is also a (literal) gateway to the Hispanic community, and any outreach to Hispanics across the Southwest or even into Mexico may be well served by reaching out to one of the NCAA’s top Hispanic-heavy institutions.

6. Legacy

UTEP has 21 Men’s Division 1 NCAA championships, tied for 10th-most overall, and more than any school in the Mountain West. These championships include Basketball, Cross Country, Indoor Track & Field, and Outdoor Track & Field. Houston has basically won championships in... Golf. I didn’t even know there was NCAA Golf.

7. Hypocrisy for Houston

For all the clamoring these past few years about the Mountain West being deserving of national attention, a reactionary move for Houston sends all the wrong signals. It doesn’t say "we’re proving we’re better than you" anymore. It says, "we’re trying to play your game by being market-share relevant," and there’s no guaranteeing this path will even help the MWC. As long as BYU stays, the MWC should automatically qualify for the BCS. It doesn’t need Houston. What adding the Cougars does is throwing away the MWC’s moral superiority on the issue. It doesn’t address the patience by which the MWC realizes the West is growing fast and MWC schools and facilities are improving all the time, it reeks of the desperate reactionary grab-bag the WAC did in the 90s.

Number 8?

One last note... when Kevin Sumlin (inevitably) leaves, look for Cougar football to take a nosedive once again.

Adrian Mac’s take:

Houston: I don't buy that the Cougars can bring in the Houston media market.  The college market in H-Town is already owned by Texas and A&M.  The Cougars have porous facilities and little to no local support.  Kevin Sumlin is doing a heck of a job and I'm a big fan of Mack Rhoades.  He'll get that athletic department going in the right direction, but he has a lot of work to do.  Houston might have a better football program than UTEP right now (so does Tulsa and Nevada), but success is cyclical.  If Houston can't draw local support when they are winning, what happens if their program loses a step after Sumlin inevitably leaves to greener pastures?

 

Poll
Now that you've read the case for adding UTEP over Houston, who would you rather see the MWC add if it needs to expand to 12 teams?
UTEP Miners
202 votes
Houston Cougars
177 votes

379 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 97 comments  |  Add comment  |  0 recs  | 

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I Personally

still prefer Houston, but I think those are all good points. I would prefer both over Utah State for sure, still hoping that doesn’t happen.

Making sense of it all takes a whole lot a concentration

by plainview88 on Aug 23, 2010 2:33 PM PDT reply actions  

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by Melinda22 on Apr 9, 2011 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also optimistic all these moves can be implemented going into the 2011 season.

That is to say I’d prefer Fresno State, Nevada, and whoever else doesn’t have to wait till 2012.

Making sense of it all takes a whole lot a concentration

by plainview88 on Aug 23, 2010 2:36 PM PDT reply actions  

doubtful

I can see Nevada and Fresno in 2011 because if the WAC is done they may be able to leave.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

recruiting

Is the reason to take Houston.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 2:58 PM PDT reply actions  

If that were the case...

Then the C-USA (with the Texas schools and UCF) and SunBelt (with North Texas and the Florida schools) would be a lot better off. I don’t buy it. The recruiting advantage isn’t significant.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 23, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes it is

Then why did Utah add recruiting to the Texas area the past few years. I think they doubled their efforts, trust my recruiting is huge and Houston is a benefit.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Utah’s not getting players out of Houston because TCU is in the league. They’re getting them because:

a.) Utah is a nationally recognized program
b.) The Utes made a conscious decision to put more resources into the state (trust me – they’re not getting so many California players because San Diego State is in the league)
c.) OL Coach Blake Miller has a decades-rich resume in the state of Texas
d.) Brian Johnson has Texas roots
e.) Morgan Scalley is a Hell of a recruiter

Utah basically tries to mine all of their players out of CA and TX. This has nothing to do with TCU or San Diego State, and I sincerely doubt adding Houston to the MWC will benefit anyone else tremendously.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 23, 2010 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not saying TCU is why they are getting players

But it can only be a plus to get certain players by saying they could play near home twice in their career. I know it has more to do with Scalley who is a stud as for BJ he has yet to do too much since he was just hired.

Just saying it is not a negative to adding Houston for recruiting and it is better then UTEP in that aspect.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it’s a negative, I just don’t think it’s much of a positive either. In the world of science, things have to be proven to be ‘statistically significant.’ Obviously, there’s no way to determine that here, but I’d wager the recruiting ‘advantage’ gained by having UofH in the conference isn’t ‘statistically significant.’

I’ve had a lot of friends play college ball (I went to the football factory known as Plano), and I’m just not buying this angle to a degree that matters.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 23, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

The reason it helps to have a team from an area

is apparent when you look at the Pac 10 and thier little dissagreement on how the conference should be structured. They all want to go to LA every year. The reason? LA is a huge recruitment area.

Having a team like Houston in the conference allows you to get down to the area and build yourself a presence in the mind of potential recruits. This is what TCU did for the conference and it is no coincidence that Utah’s Texas recruitment went up significantly after the Horned Frogs joined the conference. That increase also predates Utah’s more recent name recongnition. As for UTEP, I like the team, I’m old enough to remember the Miners and hate them just a bit from way back, but you’re unlikely to want to spend much time recruiting in El Paso.

by NC Ute on Aug 24, 2010 6:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

What you don't realize is that the potential recruits

In Houston are watching the Texans, Longhorns, Aggies, and (Dallas) Cowboys. UH is, sadly, an afterthought there.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's not really the point.

The point is not that they’re fans of Houston. The point is that they’ll get to make a trip back to their hometown because Houston is in the conference. So they know they’ll get to play in front of friends and family at least once.

Is it a requirement to get players out of texas? No. Does it help? Absolutely.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 24, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think you follow recruiting much if you think this is a big factor in the recruiting process. Boise has 7 players from Texas and never plays in the state, for example.

All it takes to recruit an area is a commitment to recruit that area.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't even say the back trip is the point.

They point is that you’re on TV in thier state, and you’re PHYSICALLY there and able to meet recruits. In other cases you may not actually meet the recruits you’re trying to land personally. “Oh hey, we’re gonna be in Houston on Oct 15th and just happen to have these tickets to the game…why don’t you stop by and we’ll chat about your future?” I’d be willing to bet that conversation happens frequently with higher profile recruits. Sure, Boise has done a good job in recruiting from Texas, but that doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t get more and BETTER players by having a presence there.

Having a presence isn’t a guarantee, but it is a help. Just go read all the whining on the Pac 10 blogs if you doubt it.

by NC Ute on Aug 24, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn’t help that much. Ever looked at some of the non-Texas rosters of C-USA teams? Ever noticed how few Texans they have on their team? Memphis has what, 6?

by VA Libertarian on Aug 25, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Utah's coaches have specifically indicated that the trips matter.

Playing in the area matters. Why do you think the PAC 10 schools are all concerned about the number of times they’ll get to play in California? It’s recruiting.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 29, 2010 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

also have to be a good school

Just because you are in Texas does not make you good.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

One last note… when Kevin Sumlin (inevitably) leaves, look for Cougar football to take a nosedive once again.

That is a question I would really like a good answer to. Of the schools that are candidates for MWC inclusion, which would provide the best on-field product over the long term? Obviously that’s a purely speculative question, but it’s one worth asking.

And I would have no problem with UTEP in the MWC.

by David Hooper on Aug 23, 2010 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

The easy answer is nobody

Really. Tulsa, Rice, Houston, and UTEP have all had runs of success in the C-USA West over the last 5-6 years and SMU is now turning the corner after being the West doormat for a while.

This season, you guys might all think Houston is some runaway lock to win the C-USA. First of all, the Cougars didn’t win it last year despite their wins over Texas Tech and Oklahoma State. The talent level in Conference USA (especially among the West teams) is very, very close. Do you guys know that Houston last year was ranked:

95th in the NCAA in scoring defense
111th in the NCAA in total defense, and
115th in the NCAA in rushing defense.

And, they lost 7 starters from that defense- so it’s not like they were playing a bunch of sophomores who will be better with experience this season. They are really starting over right now. On offense, they are extraordinary, but any team with defensive numbers like that can lose to just about anybody on their schedule.

Do I think Houston can go 10-2 this season? Yes. But, would i be shocked if they went 8-4? Not at all. Because I know that SMU, Tulsa, Central Florida, Southern Miss, and UTEP are all schools in C-USA capable of beating them.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 23, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Actually that's not a speculative question at all

I think that is a question of donor support and funding and facilities. Which school and it’s fans support the athletic department the most?

Coaches on this level come and go. I could just as quickly point out that UTEP has a good one in Price as well, and when he leaves, UTEP could drop down as well. BUT of the remaining WAC schools and C-USA, I’d say UTEP would be the safest.

UofH promises a new stadium…but there is NO funding in place for it.

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com) and one of the top Rockies writers at the Bleacher Report.

by Redhawk on Aug 23, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great point on UH's stadium

When the announcement was made it was conveniently timed around the Big 12’s latest round of realignment talks. As someone who has followed the new stadium story for a while, I couldn’t believe it because I had read in the Chron for months about how hard it was just to get the money for the feasibility study on the new stadium. The funding could be years and year’s away- so those who think that the groundbreaking is imminent might want to hold off….

by Adrian Mac on Aug 23, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

thats right

They need funding first.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

they kept up the pace

When Art Briles left and actually exceeded what he did.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great write-up VA

Amazingly, I’m not sure most Miner fans would be too excited about joining a MWC without BYU and Utah. There would definitely be appeal for us to reunite with UNM- and if BYU’s there & committed to staying- it’s probably a no brainer.

That said, I don’t see the MWC adding any C-USA schools right now- I really think Banowsky/Thompson are going to pursue some sort of joint proposal to the BCS (in some way, shape, or form) and poaching schools from each other is probably not the best way to secure a good, working relationship.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 23, 2010 3:27 PM PDT reply actions  

MWC indirectly gave C-USA a replacment

Since the WAC is nearly toast, LA. Tech would easily transition into C-USA. It would be more like a trade then a poach.

by Smoove V on Aug 23, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

UTEP or Houston for La. Tech? I hope someone hugs C-USA afterwords.

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by Redhawk on Aug 23, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not a bad trade.

LaTech has been down, but they do have a tendency to spike up pretty high on occasion. And having the much closer proximity to the other CUSA teams would be of benefit to that conference.

by David Hooper on Aug 23, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, this isn't helpful. Now I want both of them.

You’ve made a compelling case for UTEP and I would welcome UTEP to the MWC; however my first choice is still Houston. Mostly because they would improve the MWC’s BCS stats and their potential to enhance the MWC in the long run is very tantalizing.

by Smoove V on Aug 23, 2010 3:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Ha

I think the MWC would have been better off chasing UH/UTEP before going the Nevada/Fresno route, but that’s just me. Conversely, I wanted the C-USA to make a strong move, after BYU announced they were going solo, at brining in UNM and TCU. Now, it appears these conferences want to work together. So, if the MWC does expand I’d expect Utah State to be back in the fold- which to me only weakens the MWC despite whatever so-called TV presence the Utes may have.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 23, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

The MWC had to raid the WAC first

in order to gain some leverage on BYU and save the conference.

I don’t mind the addition of Fresno St because it finally gives SDSU a natural rival, but Nevada? Meh. I would prefer UTEP over Nevada.

by Smoove V on Aug 23, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

All Good Points

I voted for Houston, but you may have swayed me. I’ve always been partial to UTEP and was disappointed when the MWC left them out. I’d much rather have UTEP or Houston as opposed to Utah State. Utah State makes no sense to me.

by LoboJo on Aug 23, 2010 3:37 PM PDT reply actions  

I will concede this much: the '90s WAC expansion was a horrible idea from every view.

Obviously there’s hindsight and all that, but even at the time the move was dumb.

When it was first conceived, I was getting my undergrad at Wyoming and I thought it was a stupid idea. That did more to set mid-major football back than any good it could have done. Any expansion that follows the ‘90s model of expansion does need to be examined to see whether they’re making the same mistake twice.

by David Hooper on Aug 23, 2010 4:56 PM PDT reply actions  

I also don’t think Houston will necessarily increase our odds of getting a better TV deal.

Per ESPN:

With the MWC adding Fresno State and Nevada in one or two years to reach 11 teams — again, the thinking here is BYU stays — and adding Houston to break into a major market, the MWC is in position (even without Houston) to sell its product to other networks, say reuniting with ESPN, an avenue to grow desperately needed television revenue for its schools as well as placing more games in more homes. Ironically, the MWC ditched ESPN because it was frustrated that the network stuck its teams playing on odd nights, like Tuesdays.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 23, 2010 5:10 PM PDT reply actions  

this quote is even more disturbing from that piece
Asked if progress is being made to get The Mtn. on TVs here, Thompson said blunty, “No.”

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Personally I think the MWC should wait until the spring.

Let’s see who does good this year.

Expansion at this point is likely for 2012 anyways.

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by utesfan100 on Aug 23, 2010 5:29 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I think that's what they're basically doing now.

At this point, the best option is to wait and see how the WAC falls out. If LaTech moves to CUSA, then adopting a current CUSA team balances both leagues.

And deep, deep down, I still have an irrational hope that Texas Tech comes available when Texas moves to the PAC.

by David Hooper on Aug 23, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Texas Tech

Texas Tech would be sweeeeeeet. But I don’t think it’ll ever happen. :(

by VA Libertarian on Aug 23, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean after BYU succeeds as an indepentent

And Texas forges a network to go independent also?

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by utesfan100 on Aug 23, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we're skipping past the most important detail:

UTEP has a SBN site and Houston doesn’t.

Check and mate.

by David Hooper on Aug 23, 2010 6:09 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

good point

But SBN Houston does have a Houston Cougar section, but a full fledge site like Miner Rush trumps that.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 23, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

After this I really like UTEP

But the variable in this is if it’s true that Comcast has promised to expand the reach of the MWC to Texas and the East Coast. If that’s the case, I still want Houston, if not, now I want UTEP.

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UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 23, 2010 9:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Both have pros and cons

UTEP averaged 29,000 fans last year per game and Houston 25,252. But the 5 year average for UTEP was 38,800 and would probably be up close to that again if in the MWC. Still, Houston is expanding their stadium to 44,000 in anticipation of larger crowds as well while UTEP already has great facilities. UTEP has great fan base.

As for Fresno: They have great facilities, great exposure to the California market, great facilities and stadium, and averaged 33,578 fans per game last year, and that is down from their 5 year average of 37,864. Their programs are solid, and will be a superior choice for the MWC. Their teams will improve swiftly in the MWC, and be the great program it was a few years ago. There is no question that they deserve to be in the MWC and will prove to be one of conference’s greatest additions.

by bluesyourdaddy on Aug 24, 2010 5:45 AM PDT reply actions  

UTEP hasn't won football games

UTEP’s history vs MWC teams:

New Mexico 64 times from 1935 to 2007
28-34-2 record, average score 18 to 19

BYU 36x, 1946-1998:
7-28, ave score 18-34

Wyoming 33x, 1962-1995:
6-26-1, ave score 16-30

Colorado State 33x, 1963 to 1998:
9-24, ave score 19-32

Utah 33x, 1964-1998:
8-25, ave score 19-35

San Diego State 22x, 1974-2006:
4-18, ave score 20-35

Fresno State 9x, 1992-2004:
2-6-1, ave score 19-29

UNLV 7x, 1978-1993:
2-5, ave score 19-28

Boise State 5x, 2000-2004:
0-5, ave score 19-47

Texas Christian 5x, 1965-2000:
2-3, ave score15-29

Nevada 3x, 2000-2002:
1-2, ave score 31-31

If anything it’s nice they have a history with every team but not a single winning record head-to-head and in most cases they were stomped. Maybe UTEP was left behind because they couldn’t compete in football from 1967 to 1998.

Vs Houston:
Date Opponent (record) Result Score Site
10/3/2009 vs. *Houston (10-4) W 58 41
11/22/2008 @ *Houston (8-5) L 37 42
10/27/2007 vs. *Houston (8-5) L 31 34
10/21/2006 @ *Houston (10-4) L 17 34
9/16/2005 vs. *Houston (6-6) W 44 41

2-3, ave score 37-38

by Idle on Aug 24, 2010 5:45 AM PDT reply actions  

Solid point

UTEP hasn’t helped itself with poor football performance- but if you look at Houstons from 1990 on I think you’ll be equally disappointed.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Don't vote Houston on our account!

Utah jumped when the opportunity arose, and who can begrudge them. BYU may still be attempting independence, and who can blame them either. Lousy tv contracts are hurting what could be a great conference. If Utah had stayed, plus the two new additions, it would have have been interesting. So, don’t pick Houston for TCU’s sake. Sure I would prefer an in-state rival, a true conference regional rivalry has been missing for TCU since they joined the MWC. But, the UTEP points are worthy and probably make sense for the conference as a whole. Also, the first opportunity TCU has to make a leap to an AQ conference, y’all know we will take, so don’t begrudge us either. Just hope it’s not TCU and BSU heading to that conference together!

by HornedFrog1992 on Aug 24, 2010 8:10 AM PDT reply actions  

I Still Like UH

These are all good, valid points. And I must say you’ve done you research, Libby, which I have not. But, I want to respond to a couple of your points.

College sports are rarely (unless you’re in Notre Dame country) going to beat professional sports in a head-to-head competition for fan support. But part (only part) of UH’s problem with attendance has been the albatross of the conference competition they’ve been facing since UT and A&M dropped off their schedule. That’s not something that will change overnight.

Of course, basketball should not be totally discounted, though if we’re going to talk basketball history, who was in the Final Four (and the championship game) more recently, the Miners or the Cougars?

Football drives revenue and the bulk of the conference membership discussion (unless you’re in the Big East). And, my overriding concern is what the prospective conference member will do for the MWC’s potential inclusion in the BCS. UH is not going to, single-handedly, push us over the top. However, they are much more useful in that discussion than UTEP.

And I’ve been to El Paso and Houston, too. You cannot be serious in saying that there’s more to do in El Paso, or even that El Paso is a more interesting place, than Houston.

All that being said, HornedFrog1992 is right. Don’t be surprised if TCU and BSU mosey off to an AQ conference the first time they’re invited. (Maybe UTEP can be part of filling that hole.)

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 24, 2010 8:29 AM PDT reply actions  

To be fair

I didn’t say there was more to do in El Paso than Houston. I said,

El Paso is a HELL of a lot more fun than Houston. Not only does El Paso have a uniquely wonderful cultural and nightlife scene, but it’s a skip away from Mexico, which is a blast. Houston, in comparison, is a stuffy corporate city without much of a culture. Sure, all the oil barons there were sure to pony up for nice museums and whatnot, but any quick visit to the city will tell you that there just seems to be something missing there.

And I stand by that. As a native Texan, I’ve been to both cities several times. Houston has a lot to do, yes, but none of it’s very fun, and most of it is the same cookie-cutter crap you’ll find in other cities who don’t try very hard (Dallas, Phoenix, etc.). And downtown Houston nightlife is severely lacking. If you want culture, try El Paso. Houston’s a great place to raise a family, but it’s not so fun a place to visit. Every time I’ve been there I’ve been severely disappointed or bored.

And if you want to play the card that Houston’s “problem with attendance has been the albatross of the conference competition they’ve been facing since UT and A&M dropped off their schedule,” I think it’s fair to point out that UTEP has never been in a conference with UT and A&M and still has a better attendance history. Heaven only knows what their attendance could be like with some visits by the Longhorns and Aggies (or even Tech).

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

To Be Fair

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the “which is more fun, Houston or El Paso” discussion. And, to be fair, you may well have a better grasp of that one. But I’d rather find myself stranded without bus fare in Houston than in El Paso. I also tend to agree about some of the “cookie-cutter crap” comment about Dallas and Phoenix but, be careful. I live in Dallas and, though I was gone for several years and cannot be held responsible, I’m back and my roots are pretty deep here.

But, let’s do a reality check. In 2009, the MWC was made up of nine schools. We added Boise (up to 10), but lost Utah (back to nine). Then we are added Fresno and Nevada (up to eleven). If we add Houston or UTEP, we’re up to 12…a good number for a two-division conference.

Now, if BYU just wants to spite us and make a statement, they’re likely to go independent in football and slough off their basketball and minor sports programs to the WCC or some group like that. They are, first and foremost, a religious institution. Therefore, I think they would even go so far as to sacrifice their other sports programs by going independent in football, regardless of its effect, so that they could use their broadcast facilities to promote their church. They are operating from a different mindset and have different goals.

So, if BYU goes, we could add Houston and UTEP if we want a 12-team conference, or stand pat if we like our 10-team layout. My point is this…if BYU goes (a decision into which I have no more insight than I’ve just given), our either/or discussion becomes a question of “both or neither.”

Our (my) goal, all along, is making the MWC an AQ conference in the eyes of the BCS cartel. I simply think that Houston does a better job of that according to the criteria laid out by the cartel. If the BCS sees it differently, I’d have to reconsider my vote

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 24, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

If BYU goes, then we won't add Houston and UTEP

We’d add Houston/UTEP and Utah State. Utah State keeps all the Utah TV infrastructure in place.

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UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 24, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

The premise of this debate was based on the assumption that BYU stays and there’s a need for a 12th team.

I actually think that if BYU leaves, the MWC may be better off standing put at 10. If the conference loses BYU they may not be able to get back good BCS numbers. If they do look to go to 12 at that point, I think Houston may get the first priority simply to replace some of BYU’s BCS stats.

However, assuming BYU stays, and looking long-term, I think UTEP is the better fit. Most analysts pretty much agree that the MWC will get in with its current 11 teams, but losing BYU could be costly (so costly that even Houston may not make up the slack).

Also, where in Dallas are you? I lived there for 19 years (well, I lived in Plano for 19 years), so I think I can be fair in my evaluation. That’s not to say the entire area blows – I just think that Dallas and most of the suburbs are horribly uninteresting. In comparison, Fort Worth is one of my favorite cities in the country.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I Think They're Gone

As I’ve said in other threads, the LDS church (who run BYU) isn’t focusing on football. They’re focusing on getting exposure for their church by using their impressive broadcast facilities to package their message in football commercials. Though I would really like to be wrong, I really think they’re gone unless they decide scheduling an independent would be too difficult, or something like that. I believe that they would sacrifice their other sports programs if they can’t work a deal with somebody like the West Coast Conference.

I’ve not been shy about the fact that I’m a TCU alum and, therefore, I’m thinking about TCU first and the conference second. At the same time, I believe that the Mountain West is TCU’s best shot at the BCS. There are other folks out there saying that TCU’s time is now and I agree. The rest of that statement says that TCU is in a good position to force the Mountain West to do what they have to do to become an AQ conference.

While I do believe that TCU should do what it can to take advantage of its current success, I’m not sure I completely buy into the second part about forcing the conference to do something. When you throw you’re weight around in a confined space, such as an athletic conference, that same weight often bounces back and smacks you in the face (or another uncomfortable region). It is in the entire conference’s best interest to get AQ status and sooner than later. But doing the wrong thing — like adding the wrong team(s) — just to be doing something is still the wrong thing.

And I, too, used to live in Plano (between ‘98 and ’05). I’m in far north Dallas County now. And, like you, Fort Worth is one of my favorite cities. If work would allow, I would live there.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 24, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most experts seem to be saying that the MWC will be an AQ conference as long as BYU stays. It has very little to do with adding Houston.

That’s why I’ve taken the time to argue here that UTEP is a better fit long-term.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which experts are saying that?

Everything I read, from Dennis Dodd and others, say there’s no way the MWC becomes an AQ even with BYU. I’d like more on that- I think the perception on this site varies substantially with what I read from the national outlets but that could be the result of the fact that people on this site are more educated on the matter.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can you get me a list of each "expert" that is saying that there is no way the MWC gets an auto bid with BYU

I’m going to send them an e-mail explaining why it is more of a probablitiy then an improbability.

Mountain West Connection - The best site for MWC Sports.
UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 24, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

it is probable

Ive said this a million times that with the MWC on par with the ACC from the BCS numbers and they will keep their bid with the Orange Bowl deal. If the MWC and ACC stay their course there is no way the BCS could deny the mwc through the petition if they are similar to the ACC where they keep their bid.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 24, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which BCS conferences would invite TCU or Boise?

The Pac 12 isn’t going to expand again for a while and the Big 12, mainly Texas, is adamantly opposed to adding another Texas school because UT/A&M/Tech already own the DFW and H-Town media markets.

I don’t see any other MWC schools moving up and I think BYU to the Big 12 would be the most likely.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's a rumor going around

That the Big East would consider TCU.

I don’t buy into that rumor, but it’s what’s being said.

Personally, I don’t see the Big East expanding at all, since they’re already over-expanded in basketball, and adding more schools could send them upwards of 20+ basketball teams.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting idea-

Everything I’ve read has Memphis, then UCF, then East Carolina in line for the Big East- but TCU could make some sense….

by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's definitely been floated on message boards

Usually the idea is to add TCU and 3 other schools, probably Houston, Memphis, and UCF; put them in a south division with USF and Louisville (not quite geographically accurate, but the last remnants of the Old Big East stay in one division that way, and Cinci makes a better straggler than USF or the ’ville).

This, like pretty much all message board chatter proposals for Big East expansions, envisions the non-football members splitting off into their own conference.

When it looked like the Big 12 was going to collapse, I was all in favor of adding the Big 12 North leftovers and destroying any pretenses other conferences had at being the Big East’s equal in basketball.

by drothgery on Aug 24, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

legacy.....really????

i think the legacy arguement does not stick. Everyone knows of the Houston glory days of football AND basketball (remember Phi Slamma Jamma) of the 80’s and 90’s. And as far as other sports like Track and Field, remember a guy named Carl Lewis (a Houston Cougar)?? i think Houston is making an effort to get back to where they used to be and MWC should grab them. Plus, the recruiting market IS huge. Cant watch too many SEC games without seeing players from Houston, TX

by byucougar232 on Aug 24, 2010 8:46 AM PDT reply actions  

The recruiting advantage is over-played

I’ve been over this several times with several other people. You can recruit Houston without having UH in the conference, as evidenced by Utah. Likewise, the SEC is obviously doing the same (again, without Houston in their conference, or even a Texas team for that matter). I think that most people who believe this have never been a part of the recruiting process.

Also, you can’t seriously believe that Phi Slamma Jamma is more significant than Don Haskins in the history of college basketball.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

Look at Pac 10 schools- they have no presence in Texas and yet Jacquizz Rogers and countless others are still going to Oregon State.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that Quiz and a few others are going to a P-10 school is irrelevant.

Sure, there are a few examples you can point out but that doesn’t bear out the statistics. Statistically the programs that have a presence in an area recruit more and better players than teams who do not. (at least according to ‘star’ rankings) Also remember that while Quiz is a great player, his size made him less attractive to some of the larger Texas recruiters. There will always be players that don’t get as much attention and end up in other places. This is largely do to the TREMENDOUS SIZE (ize ize ize) of the pool of Texas players that are good enough to play D1 football.

by NC Ute on Aug 24, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jaquizz Rogers was not a huge prospect

he went to OSU because it was his best offer. I’m sure if Houston were in a BCS conference (which MWC is on the verge of) he probably would have considered it.

by B Money on Aug 24, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you think having Houston in the MWC will get you the top recruits in Houston?

I think that’s fundamentally wrong. If anything, it will help get some lower level recruits that would probably go to a MWC school anyway. Houston’s elite are playing in the Big 12 or SEC.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 25, 2010 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sure for now...

But if the MWC achieves AQ status they’d likely get at least a few of them. With UTEP they’d get all the most highly rated…..sagebrush.

by NC Ute on Aug 25, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Perspective

I, too, agree that the recruiting angle is over-played. But there is something to it in terms of deeper exposure to a larger number of people. And, sometimes, you have to dig for the real gems.

I’m not trying to pick a fight, Libby, but I had to comment on your solid knowlege of college basketball. I think I have a handle on the signicance of Don Haskins. But, if you don’t follow college basketball fairly closely or are not from Texas or the region covered by the WAC, the accomplishements of Coach Haskins and the Miners may not be that familiar.

The phrase “Phi Slamma Jamma,” on the other hand, needs no explanation to sports fans in general or anyone of a particular age group. (I see by your profile that you definitely do NOT fall in that age group. But you are quite literate when it comes to sports topics.)

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 24, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think at this point ‘Glory Road’ may be as equally well known as Phi Slama Jama, but I could be wrong. Admittedly, however, my Texas roots and love of college basketball may have me overly biased for Haskins over the national phenomenon that was Drexler, Olajuwon & Co. Either way, I think UTEP’s 21 national championships in 4 different events is more impressive than Houston’s 16 in 1 sport.

For the record, I’m not trying to put down Houston’s sporting accomplishments – I’m merely trying to sell UTEP as a better fit for the conference long-term.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair Enough

I may be showing my age (or my football focus), but when you say “Glory Road,” I think of the Civil War movie. I think that also refers to someone’s BB program, but I couldn’t tell you whose.

And I didn’t read your argument as putting down Houston’s accomplishments.

At least you understand that the T in UTEP doesn’t make them a reasonable travel partner for TCU. UTEP is only marginally closer to TCU than it is to the Air Force Academy and WAAAY out of the way, unless the Miners are going to play SMU or the Frogs are going to play the University of Baja).

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 24, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Glory Road

was a movie about how Don Haskins became the first coach to start 5 black players at Texas-Western (Later changed to UTEP). They were far more athletic than any team out there and went all the way through the NCAA Tournament and beat Kentucky for the 1964 (I think) National Championship in basketball.

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UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 24, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now I Remember!

Thanks, Rebel.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 25, 2010 5:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

@ VA Libertarian and Adrian Mac

i agree with both of you, however, the two examples of teams and conferences that are pulling teams from Houston are the SEC and Pac-10, and they are what?…….BCS conferences, which we are not, at least not YET!! I think adding Houston would help pull some additional recruits.

by byucougar232 on Aug 24, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Utah’s been pulling recruits from Texas for years. It has nothing to do with their recent switch to the Pac-10. All it takes to recruit Texas is a commitment to recruit Texas.

Boise has recruited California well for years without being in a BCS conference as well, and does pretty good in Texas, too (in fact, they have more TX players than a lot of C-USA teams do, and that’s without a WAC presence in the state).

Experts have agreed that the MWC is more or less assured of getting a BCS bid as long as BYU stays, so I’m stating quite clearly that adding Houston does not:
a.) get the MWC into the BCS, and
b.) give MWC members a recruiting advantage in Houston

I think that most people who say things like this don’t follow recruiting very well. Hell, I admittedly only follow it intermittently (probably better than most, though I’m no die-hard), but I remember going through the process with friends pretty well.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 24, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looks like Utah State getting more MWC traction-

I honestly have no idea what bringing in Utah State does- except cutting the pie another way. I think Utah State definitely takes more cash than it brings in.

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by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 12:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Please No

With BYU in the conference I don’t see a reason at all to bring in Utah State just want to make BYU leave even more.

Mountain West Connection - The best site for MWC Sports.
UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 24, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup. That's true.

Now BYU has to support Fresno, Nevada, and Utah State. The moves intended to weaken the WAC to keep BYU are making it more and more of a financialy impossibility for the Cougars to stay.

by Adrian Mac on Aug 24, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

One thing to think about regarding recruiting:

The Houston area is culturally a closer match to the South (e.g. SEC, ACC, etc.) than the West, while El Paso is decidedly a West area of Texas. If we’re looking for recruiting traction, it may be that gaining UTEP actually helps more than Houston because it’ll help target the players who already have associations with the Western U.S. built up in their heads.

I don’t know how far that logic carries, but I do know that distance from home is one of the primary factors in predicting where a recruit will end up committing. (E.g. if it’s between schools A and B and you don’t know of an obvious reason to guess one, always guess the school closer to the kid’s hometown.)

And one thing I may have missed: how well would UTEP work as a geographic rival to TCU? I understand the UNM rivalry, but even UTEP is closer than BYU or Boise, right?

by David Hooper on Aug 24, 2010 12:57 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't think UTEP would be as much a rival as TCU as Houston would.

Houston has all the tradition with TCU on its side.

Mountain West Connection - The best site for MWC Sports.
UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 24, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Simply Put...

UTEP is not a geographic rival to TCU. The Air Force Academy is almost as close to Ft. Worth as El Paso is. Houston and TCU, on the other hand, have a long history.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 25, 2010 5:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why did you forget UNM?

Amon Carter to Sun Bowl: 605 miles
Amon Carter to University Stadium: 629 miles
Amon Carter to Falcon Stadium: 720 miles

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 25, 2010 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

My Point is the Distance Between Ft. Worth and El Paso

People seem to think that just because UTEP and TCU are both in Texas that they are automatically a good rivalry based on geography. They assume that fans of both schools somehow intermingle based on how close they are. I was simply pointing out the fact that are NOT close to one another. Any rivaly between the two schools should not and would not be based on their proximity to one another.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 26, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I understand.

I just felt bad for UNM since you leapfrogged them and went right to AFA, despite the fact that they actually make your point better than AFA.

Of course, if my options were Albuquerque and Colorado Springs, I’d take Colorado Springs too.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 26, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think many people think that...

Most people are aware that El Paso and Fort Worth are far apart. However, I’m not sold on the idea that the benefit of Houston being closer than UTEP is to TCU is necessarily a big benefit for TCU or the conference.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 26, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most People in Texas

Folks in Texas know how big the state really is. And folks in the western half of the country probably have a good feel for the distances. I spent most of my time growing up in the eastern half of the country where people don’t understand that just because you’re in the same state doesn’t mean you’re necessarily close.

So, you’re right, Libby. I was forgetting my audience. But, I have read comments on these blogs that don’t seem to comprehend the realities of western geography.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 26, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's fair

When I lived out east people used to assume all sorts of asinine things about Texas/western geography. I was continually puzzled by people thinking Houston/Austin/San Antonio were just a short drive away. I would try explaining to them that I could get to Florida from my school in SC in a shorter amount of time than it took me to drive to Houston, but to no avail. I can’t even imagine how incomprehensible the distance between El Paso and Fort Worth is to such folks.

Nevertheless, I don’t think the geographic proximity angle between TCU and Houston/UTEP should place a big role in this, or at least not moreso than the proximity of Houston/UTEP to everyone else in the conference. TCU’s already a big haul for a lot of teams – no need to make them go even further.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 26, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I've Slept

Jeremy pointed out, yesterday, that the exit penalty for breaking the Conference-USA membership contract is prohibitively expensive (or seems so). Therefore, the chances of either Houston or UTEP leaving C-USA to join the MWC are two…slim and none.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 25, 2010 6:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Link?

Sorry- I’ve somehow missed this would love to see it…

by Adrian Mac on Aug 25, 2010 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can't vouch for it...but I saw on another board...

That the pay out was :$500k plus the total amount of loss of TV revenue over 5 years. OUCH!

by NC Ute on Aug 25, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Uh....

for someone to have Libertarian in their handle I would expect more intelligence. UTEP produces ZERO in two categories:

1. TV sets
2. Recruiting

Note: Those just happen to be the two most critical components to consider when expanding your college football market.

And if you think UTEP has more history in football and basketball than UH you’ve been hitting the peyote outside if El Paso a wee bit too hard.

by fireant222 on Dec 11, 2010 3:20 PM PST reply actions  

After glancing through the comments again...

From Sammy O’Brien regarding BYU (When they were still in the conference):

I Think They’re Gone
As I’ve said in other threads, the LDS church (who run BYU) isn’t focusing on football. They’re focusing on getting exposure for their church by using their impressive broadcast facilities to package their message in football commercials. Though I would really like to be wrong, I really think they’re gone unless they decide scheduling an independent would be too difficult, or something like that. I believe that they would sacrifice their other sports programs if they can’t work a deal with somebody like the West Coast Conference.

From VA Libertarian:

There’s a rumor going around
That the Big East would consider TCU.

I don’t buy into that rumor, but it’s what’s being said.

Personally, I don’t see the Big East expanding at all, since they’re already over-expanded in basketball, and adding more schools could send them upwards of 20+ basketball teams.

I totally thought both were BS at the time… And now it’s a sad truth.

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by rebelfan1 on Mar 28, 2011 6:34 PM PDT reply actions  

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by kral oyun on Aug 2, 2011 5:25 AM PDT reply actions  


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Tcuflag_small Ben Findley

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007_small Chris Holly Taylor

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Capo_small Anthony Capobianco