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Analyzing BYU's Move Towards Independence

I feel sorry for Karl Benson. The guy had a gift lined up for him by BYU, everything looked in place to capture a series of football games with a strong national contender for the WAC, and provide further strength in sports with the non-football programs. Apparently on Friday of last week, everything looked to be set in stone for BYU to announce its football independence, and the WAC would welcome back BYU as a prized member.

Amazing how things can change in a matter of days.

We can only assume that word of this deal leaked out to other MWC members and Craig Thompson. In that time Craig had several conference calls with the members of the league, and then boarded a plane for Pennsylvania to discuss with the TV partners their potential situation. On Tuesday, unofficial invites from the MWC to Fresno State and Nevada were delivered, with official invites coming from Craig on Wednesday afternoon.

As we start to hear from more schools and individuals, it appears as though the timeline looked like this. Sometime this summer, BYU approached Karl and the WAC with a proposition. BYU wanted to further leverage their TV network to allow the football team to go independent, which would have allowed a far greater monetization of that particular commodity. Unfortunately, such a move would have probably resulted in expulsion from the MWC for the other non-football sports. So to mitigate and minimize the damage from having those other teams also being independent (and the resulting scheduling nightmare) BYU worked a deal with the WAC to give these other sports a solid landing place.

Star-divide

The WAC appeared to work feverishly, yet quietly to put this plan into effect. The big move was to approach the different members last week with a contract that specifies a $5 million conference exit fee, if the school left the WAC in a 5 year period. Seven of the schools signed it and Nevada supposedly gave a verbal agreement. This was put in place to impede or stop altogether a school from moving once BYU's intentions became known. It was likely well understood that the MWC would come knocking and try to take the rest of the top tier WAC football schools once BYU made its move.

From all indications, BYU worked with the WAC in a very secretive way. One could even describe their machinations as Machiavellian when we consider their dealings behind the scenes to essentially eradicate the MWC's chances of getting a BCS bid with BYU's leaving, as well as ensuring a place for their non-football teams to land. With the MWC taken out of the BCS equation due to not only BYU's defection, but also the inability of the MWC to potentially entice the top remaining members of the WAC, BYU would have a greater chance to negotiate directly with the BCS for a sweetheart deal along the lines of what Notre Dame has. By initiating a plan which would accomplish this before the start of this season then BYU's results cannot be used by the MWC for a BCS automatic bid.

One cannot deny an institution like BYU the chance to improve their own bottom line and to allow them to improve their programs as they see fit. However, the lack of transparency, as well as the way this was gone about, severely darkens the intentions of what BYU attempted to accomplish. Certainly the school was not happy with the financial agreement with The Mtn. Network, and they felt they could have a better TV tie in deal with their BYU-TV network. But BYU did not approach the MWC and the partner schools, and instead attempted a plan which would essentially cut off the other schools at the knees when it comes to BCS qualifying. BYU did not become a respected football program in the past half-decade in a vacuum. The majority of the MWC has improved their game tremendously, with Utah, TCU, and BYU leading the way. The other members of the MWC have similarly improved, and the overall bowl record and out of conference results back this up. The overall improvement in the MWC was a definite team effort between the individual schools, and the level of competition that we see today is the best it has been since the formation of the MWC and inclusion of TCU.

It is one thing to be a program like Utah; the first of the BCS busters, MWC champion several times over, and an outstanding Bowl record for this past decade. The PAC-10 came calling, Utah announced their intentions publicly and informed the other members of the MWC, and was greeted by well wishes from other institutions from the conference (though disappointment that they didn't stay and keep the conference as a stronger group overall). It is quite another for a institution to work on secret deals which would in the end be detrimental to the seven other schools which have helped to raise the perception of the conference, all the while preparing a safe harbor for their other sports while the MWC potentially collapses and at the very least expels BYU.

While BYU has a successful pedigree in college football, they have yet to get to a BCS bowl. This past season their showing against OU increased their stature, only to turn around and lay a giant egg in Provo against a middling FSU. The point that I am pursuing here is that BYU has not had the consistency or success since the formation of the BCS to merit or at least condone this type of behavior. Certainly, if BYU had at least one BCS appearance and was more consistent with conference championships (though Bronco's teams have done very well), the perception of "We have climbed the top of the mountain, and we feel that we need to pursue other avenues to achieve our national championship goals" just is not there. Utah on the other hand has had two undefeated seasons along with impressive BCS bowl wins. In other words, BYU is holding themselves back rather than the national perception of being in a non-AQ conference.

So instead of working to improve the fortunes of the MWC, and giving themselves the chance of being one of the marquee teams in an AQ conference, BYU's back channel deals with the WAC gives the impression that they are scrambling hard not to be left in the shadow of arch-rival Utah's elevation to a AQ conference. Of course, the real irony here is that the MWC's record against the PAC-10 for this past decade has actually favored the MWC.

The next question is how did the deal with the WAC leak out? It is no secret that Fresno State and Nevada wanted to be included with Boise State in the invite to the MWC. It is not beyond imagination that Fresno and Nevada, once they saw the BYU plan about to be set in motion, discussed with each other how their fortunes could actually be diminished due to a weakened MWC and an independent BYU. If we consider conference re-alignment, and how Fresno and Nevada have a far greater chance to be invited to the MWC rather than another BCS conference, it is certainly not in those schools' best interests to weaken their only potential ticket to the BCS. The tenuous promise of 4 to 5 WAC teams playing BYU in a season simply was not enough, especially with the potential of this move to decimate the MWC's chances of being a BCS conference.

Karl Benson said that Fresno and Nevada were being selfish, but neither of these schools caused the chain of events that lead to Wednesday's defection. Karl Benson now simply looks like a stooge to BYU's ambitions. As I mentioned before, I feel badly for the man. He attempted to make the WAC stronger, but participated in a plan that was no where above board in terms of integrity.

My guess is that BYU will stay in the MWC for the time being. With the defection of Fresno and Nevada to the MWC, BYU no longer has an adequate landing spot for their non-football sports. Also we must consider that the Mormon Church owns BYU, and any hint of impropriety would have a severe backlash when it comes to the reputation of the church. Craig Thompson gave BYU and the Mormon Church a way to save face here, and I believe the pressure within the church will push BYU to stay in the MWC.

The WAC will survive, as they will likely bring in a few new members from Texas and California. We might even see Montana jump from 1-AA and join the WAC as well. While Karl was outmaneuvered by Craig this round, Karl was handicapped by the secretive way that BYU went about this business.

While it is unlikely that Fresno and Nevada will contribute to the current BCS evaluation period, their defection from the WAC virtually insures that BYU will stay in the MWC for the time being. It also allows the conference to potentially add one more member and reach 12 teams. But that is looking a bit too far ahead, especially in light of BYU's interest of becoming an independent football power.

 


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what a way to write your first post

Agree that BYU has not had the success to attempt this move especially by playing half of a WAC schedule. Plus the administration is trying to get out Utah’s shadow since they are now in the Pac12. That shadow is not where they want to be and they are used to casting the shadow .

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 19, 2010 3:41 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Great write up

Pretty much spoke my entire mind on this and I totally agree with you.

Mountain West Connection - The best site for MWC Sports.
UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 19, 2010 3:46 PM PDT reply actions  

This story is hilarious

Utah is honorable in their departure but BYU is machiavellian in their machinations. What a joke! Both schools were simply looking out for their own interests even if it hurt the MWC. BYU has a far longer history of tradition and success than Utah, even though Utah has been a little better over the last 5 years. But all of that is irrelevant. Utah wasn’t invited to the Pac12 over BYU because they’ve been a little better in football recently. They were invited because they have better research facilities and that’s important to the Pac12 where all 12 schools are also research schools. What’s more, do you really think BYU would be going independent if Utah was still in the MWC? Of course they wouldn’t

In the end BYU wants to go independent because they can make more money and get more exposure. There’s no guarantee the MWC would become an AQ conference if BYU stayed so they decided to make their own deal with ESPN. Everything I’ve read says that deal would pay them 4 million a year which is considerably more than the 1.3 million they made from the MWC lame TV deal.

And the reason they didn’t make their intentions known was because they knew Thompson would try to sabitage their plans if he could. And it turns out he’s done just that. But in the end I don’t think it will matter because I think BYU will still leave. And every other school in the MWC or in college football would also make a move if they felt it would help them even if it hurt the other teams in the conference they were in.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 19, 2010 3:49 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I understand BYU wants to go independent because they think they will make more money.

But with Nevada and Fresno St. now in the conference, it is practically a lock to become a BCS Conference with BYU. Not to mention if BYU does stay, then Houston would also be added, improving the BCS chances amazingly.

Mountain West Connection - The best site for MWC Sports.
UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 19, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus they now have to split the money even more

If the MWC doesn’t become an AQ conference than they’ll be in a worse position than they were before. The already meager TV revenue will diminish even more as it needs to be split in even more ways. This is why BYU wants to be independent. It’s not about improving their chances at playing in a BCS bowl game. It’s about increasing their TV revenue.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 20, 2010 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

But you are assuming...

that the current deal stays intact with the addition of 3 new teams in the upcoming seasons. The loss of Utah was a blow, but the addition of Fresno (Central Valley) and Nevada (now all of Nevada) may in fact make up for it, and expand coverage to more television sets. It would not surprise me that after the renegotiation that each team will receive, even after expansion, another 1/2 million to 1 million in TV revenue. It is still a far cry from what the Big-10 is able to command, but a tangible improvement for most schools in the MWC.

by JoshWalrath on Aug 20, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think that adding Fresno and UNR will make up for the loss of Utah.

Markets don’t matter if you can’t penetrate them. Utah is more TV eyeballs than both of those schools combined, and now you’re splitting the money between 11 schools (if BYU stays). Of course, if BYU leaves you’ll be splitting the money between only 10 schools, but you will have lost the two most-watched programs in the MWC (Utah and BYU).

The MWC deal will be lucky to remain static.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 20, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Despite what everyone here is saying

I don’t see Houston necessarily joining the Mountain West. Call them the BYU of Texas, if the analogy fits. The Cougars desperately want into the Big XII, but the Big XII wants nothing to do with them (for a number of reasons: they’re a commuter school with poor academics, the Houston market is already locked up, and it’s a recruiting competitor for UT, A&M, etc.).

The only way I see Houston coming over is if they come to the conclusion that the Big XII will absolutely never let them in. And even then, they have concerns about the geographic fit.

Ironically, if you put the analogy out even further, the BYU-Pac10/Houston-BigXII drama can be equated to UTEP-MWC. The Miners would love to be in the Mountain West, but the lack of talk about them likely has them brokenhearted.

by VA Libertarian on Aug 19, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would think UTEP is an option

They just don’t have the same appeal so they don’t get all the talk. There are probably multiple teams on the list of possible teams that don’t get all the talk that Houston gets.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

UTEP is an option if BYU leaves, they have a rivalry with New Mexico, IIRC, and they have a good stadium. The problem is on field performance, where they do nothing for us stats wise.

by HawkeyedFrog on Aug 19, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trade BYU for UTEP? Are you insane?

I’m just kidding. But I hope you are too. UTEP would be worse for our BCS aspirations than if we went with a six-team conference. (I see everything from a football standpoint.)

I think Ben is right, below, when he says that Houston would be thrilled to join the MWC. So would UTEP, but tell me again why we would do that? At least we can see that Wyoming is getting better.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 20, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trust me..

Houston would join the MWC in a heartbeat. (Assuming BYU stays)

"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator

by Ben Findley on Aug 19, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Big X will absolutely never let them in. They have more control over the Houston market than the Cougars do already, as the Aggie alumni base is at its strongest in Houston. Texas and A&M have already put the kibosh on redundant markets, as it hurts their $20 million guaranteed payment (which A&M needs to get out of debt). And the Big 3 Texas schools (and Baylor) have no interest in seeing another Texas school get to a BCS level, which would dilute their recruiting advantages. Houston has a better shot of getting into the SEC than into the Big X.

by HawkeyedFrog on Aug 19, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

What difference does it make what conference Houston would be in if the Big 12 comes calling?

It doesn’t matter if they’re in C-USA or the MWC when the Big 12 comes calling (if they do). The Cougars should realize that the MWC is their best shot at getting in the BCS and join up. Then, no matter what happens in the MWC, they can still leave if they want to join the Big 12.

Mountain West Connection - The best site for MWC Sports.
UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Aug 20, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Big-12/10 Isn't Going to Come Calling

They’ve already got the Houston TV market locked up. They’ve said (yes, I know that what conferences say about what they are going to do around realignment is worth its weight in spit) that they don’t want to expand in Texas. If they just wanted to strengthen their BCS numbers without regard to geography, they’d invite Boise State or TCU.

I sincerely hope they don’t invite TCU – I don’t want to contribute to UT’s growth fund. Unless I’m missing something (which has been known to happen), they don’t have any need to grow in Houston if they decide to expand in Texas.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 20, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

What BYU did wrong

They slept with the “girlfriend” conference while they were still sleeping with the “wife” conference. They acted like the sheep on the inside while they were really the wolf spying on their enemy.

If you are going to stab somebody in the back, have the courtesy to notify them that you are no longer their friend. Don’t pretend all is well and sneak behind their back to screw them.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

So they should have told Thompson their plans up front?

You’d be a horrible politician. They didn’t do anything wrong or illeagle. I understand being upset with BYU because I was just as upset with Utah when they left. But BYU has the right to leave as long as they make their intentions known by Sep 1st. They also have the right to try to work out a deal for their non football teams. Does anyone truely believe the MWC would let BYU stay in everything but football? Of course they wouldn’t so BYU tried to make other arrangments. There’s nothing wrong or underhanded about it. You may not like it, but it’s not shady.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 19, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree

BYU knows the MWC backup plan because they have been in the MWC board meetings pretending to be friends while they were spying. They pretended nothing was up with their patners to their face. At the same time they were making back room deals with the MWC “enemy conference” to ruin the MWC backup plan after they left.

BYU threw all the MWC teams under the bus to give themself a better deal. I would have been fine if they just left. The MWC has a liberal exit policy after all. I had a problem with them laying land mines behind them as they left. Plus they were acting like they were friends to the other MWC members faces the entire time they were laying the mines.

I don’t have a problem with BYU moving on. They are a strong BCS worthy team that deserves to be in a BCS league. I have a problem with the two-faced lying they did behind the other MWC members backs. Don’t stab people in the back while you tell them you are friends to their face.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Were you in those meetings?

You know what BYU did or didn’t do or said or didn’t say because you were there? Please, you’re just guessing at what happened. BYU has every right to leave the MWC if they want to. What should they have done? Tell Thompson they’re thinking about leaving? Give me a break! Thompson would never have allowed BYU to keep their non football teams in the MWC if they left to be independent in football. They wanted to leave but knew they had to make plans for their non football sports since the MWC wasn’t an option. So what did they do wrong that they should have done? Should they have told Thompson they wanted to be independent so he could try to stop them? What would you have done if you were BYU and you wanted to leave in everything but football? I understand you’re upset about BYU leaving but stop being stupid.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 19, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree and disagree

I agree on one part. BYU had every right to leave. They are a BCS quality school that isn’t getting their share of money. They are the top of a mid-major sharing with lower revenue genrating schools. Plus they are not getting the exposure they would like in the current TV contract. I understand why they would want to change that. I don’t have a problem with them going independent.
My problem is that they lied to the face of the other MWC schools while he was making backroom deals with an “enemy conference.” You say I wasn’t there, well put the pieces together…

1) Craig Thompson said in the MWC press conference that he knew in advance that the WAC was signing the $5 million dollar exit fee penalty. He waited until AFTER they signed the document to invite Nevada, Fresno, and Utah St. to the MWC.
2) The $5 million exit fee was signed by the WAC last FRIDAY.
3) This Monday news breaks about BYU going independent with the WAC.
4) Craig immediately reacts and invites Utah St, Fresno St., and Nevada to the MWC.

Why do you think he waited until after they signed the $5 million dollar poison pill exit contract to invite them.
a) Because he didn’t like Fresno St., Nevanda, and Utah St. and he wanted to screw them from the day they were invited.
b) Because he wanted to give $5 million per school to the WAC as a consolation prize.
c) BYU was making backroom deals with the WAC while pretending to the face of other MWC teams that nothing was up.

My problem is that BYU was not honest in their dealings with other men.

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's inviting them now to try to stop BYU from leaving

BYU knew that if they went independent there would be a good chance Thompson would try to get some schools from the WAC to replace them. Since they were going to have there non football teams playing there, they didn’t want it to get raided and diminish in quality. But it didn’t work. Thompson invited them and I guess the schools feel it’s worth paying 5 million to move to the MWC. But BYU didn’t deceive anyone.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 20, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

We have to agree to disagree

I think if you are in a business partnership you don’t work with a competitor without notification to your partners. Now if you quite your job with official notification there would be no problem. You have to look out for your self.

You must officially end your current agreement BEFORE you make new agreements with the competition.

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Name one other team that didn't notify their partners in advance that they were changing allegiance.

Instead BYU chose to be the two-faced back stabber.

Imagine a husband decides to leave his wife for another woman. If they get a divorce and then he moves on that is life, even if it sucks. If he sleeps with his wife and the mistress at the same time that is immoral. All the while siphoning money out of the couples marital emergency bank account. He knew that would be the wifes backup plan in case of an emergency so he took it while she was not expecting an emergency, and he knew one was coming.

BYU slept with both conferences at the same time while pretending nothing was up. Then sabatoged the conference backup plan behing their backs while nobody knew there was a fight going on.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

A good politician...

would tell their peers what they wanted, explain a timeline that was reasonable, and then make those same peers think that they also are coming out ahead by helping out.

Honestly, I think if BYU had approached the other schools in the league, presented their case as to why they feel they are better off independent, and still offered enough concessions to reach their goal all the while keeping their other sports in the MWC, everyone would have been better off. If I were BYU, I would have made a timeline that would attempt independence for football after the 2012 season. This would have allowed the MWC time to get another member school lined out, it would have also given BYU the chance to potentially compete that last season for what I think will be an AQ bid for the MWC. I am still confused as to why BYU thought that it was the prime time to hatch this scheme, and why would they pull their other sports out of the MWC into an arguably lesser league? Unless of course BYU wanted to dominate WAC play, which they likely would.

Then again, we don’t know what other actions are in play, such as the one that Gary P. of TCU was alluding to. Interesting times.

by JoshWalrath on Aug 19, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

The biggest question is: Why now?

"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator

by Ben Findley on Aug 19, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

I keep mentioning the Comcast and NBC Universal deal that could have huge benefits for the league and the impending BCS status if they league keeps up the same performance level.

BYU wanted to be out of Utah’s shadow now that they are in the Pac-10

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 19, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you really think Thompson would have allowed BYU to stay in the MWC in everything but football?

Of course he wouldn’t! So they made other arangments. BYU is under no obligation to look out for the interests of the MWC. They only have to look out for their own interests. Stop acting like BYU did something underhanded. They knew if they declared independence in football they would have to make other arangments for their non football sports. So that’s what they did! They decided to be an independent and figured out where their non football sports would play since the MWC would no longer be on option. I have no problem with people being upset, but stop acting like BYU did something underhanded.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 19, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're Right...

…BYU is under no obligation to look out for the interests of the MWC.

At the same time, an honest, trustworthy business person or entity does not undercut current associates (the “wife,” as other posts are phrasing it) to form a different relationship with future associates (the “girlfriend”). But football is a business (not MORE business, Smills, ALL business) from the perspective of university administrations. All the rivalry and pagentry is great fun, but it’s a side benefit to raising money for creating another mechanism by which schools can attract new students.

It was and is a business decision for BYU and the LDS church. And they have every right to make that business decision. I, and several of us who are disappointed with the impact that this particular LDS business decision has on us, simply don’t think that BYU handled it very well. I find it odd that an entity that likes to call itself a church would behave in this self-centered way.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 20, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was that last sentence supposed to be a joke?

Not to get into a religious debate but it seems like almost all churches act in self centered ways. And BYU wasn’t trying to screw over the MWC. They were simply trying to protect the WAC from being raided since all their sports teams were moving there except football. It didn’t work, but that’s why they did it.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 20, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll leave you to your misconceptions about Christianity...

…largely because you have ample evidence from the behavior of many who call themselves “Christians” but haven’t read the instructions.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 20, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've read the instructions

I even study Hebrew for 2 years so I could read the Bible in its original language. I know more about the Bible than 99% of Americans. I’m not talking about the teachings of Jesus but how most of the churches in the world apply those teachings. And almost all the churches in the world act in self centered ways.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 20, 2010 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me Too

Wow…I have a degree in theology, but I didn’t study the language. I’m impressed with your dedication. My comment wasn’t directed at you, but at the poor models that exist in our society for non-Christians.

When I re-read the sentence in my initial post to which you refer in your first Aug. 20 post, I understand (and agree with) your point. Thanks for the clarification.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 24, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is football and quite frankly, more BUSINESS

What a stupid analogy. Trying to equate football and business to adultery. Pathetic!

by Smills9133 on Aug 19, 2010 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

BYU lied to other MWC institutions to their face

Utah didn’t lie to the MWC to their face
Utah didn’t work out a deal to make sure Boise St. couldn’t replace them in the MWC.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do you know they lied?

Your version of events and what BYU did or didn’t do seems to be mostly your own speculation.

by holly96 on Aug 19, 2010 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

When did BYU lie?

Tell me one thing they said that was a lie. You can’t do it! Since it’s coming as such a surprise you’re upset, but BYU never lied about anything. Unless you can site an example of BYU deceiving the rest of the MWC, stop making things up.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 19, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bill Clinton never lied either

He really didn’t have sex with monica lewinsky. He only got a blow job. I am sure you were fine with that response too right?

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

What Bill Clinton did has nothing to do with BYU

Again, if people are going to say BYU lied, than give an example. Please site something BYU said that was deceptive to the other MWC schools.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 20, 2010 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lying by omission is still lying

If you weren’t in an existing contract it wouldn’t have been a problem. But you were, and that changes things.

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why do you care anyways?

You’re a UofU fan. And since when does every member of the MWC need to tell everyone else what they’re doing? Your argument is so full of holes it’s almost not worth debating.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 20, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point

1) A contract with current conference partners is nothing like a marriage contract. Clearly in a business partnership like the MWC there is no problem working behind your partners backs to screw them while you are still in the contract. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t notified them of that you are currently working with your competitor at the same time.
2) A competitor conference/business is nothing like the girlfriend. Signing deals and dictating contracts (last Firday’s WAC $5 million exit fee deal) with a competitor conference behind your current conference back without their knowledge is nothing like sleeping with the girlfriend.

In fact, it is common business practice to work with your competitor to set up your new deal before you notify your current partners that you have been working with your competitor for the last 2 months. Especially if you know you need to keep your proceedings secret. After all, if your partners found out what you were doing they would be able to react properly.

 

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Utah

was not sneaky, but there is really no other way to do that in this scenario. BYU had to keep it quiet to make this move.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 19, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

They may not have been 'sneaky'

about it. But they were the first and ALL TOO eager to jump to a more ‘lucrative’ conference. Instead of staying the MWC, adding Boise St and breaking up the BCS monopoly, they jumped to greener pastures, THUS leaving both BYU and TCU behind to fend for themselves. How else could BYU go about it….look at what happened as soon as this info leaked. The MWC responded by adding Nevada and FSU. I think there’s MUCH more to this one multiple levels than what is being reported and all BYU did was explore what was in THEIR best interest after UTAH back-stabbed the conference for the almighty dollar(which is fine) – just don’t call out BYU and celebrate UTah for ‘not being sneaky’.

by Smills9133 on Aug 19, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sneaky?

You think the MWC knew that BYU was working with the WAC? You think they knew that BYU was behind the WAC signing the $5 million exit fee penalty last Friday? BYU was in charge of WAC conference proceedings LAST FRIDAY. They have been working secretly with Carl Benson since June. You think the MWC knew about this.

I think the MWC knew well in advance that Utah was considering moving to the PAC 10. They knew that Utah allegiance was moving to a new conference even before it happened. They also weren’t worried about Utah making Boise St. Sign a contract that would prohibit them from moving to the MWC. Oh yeah, Utah didn’t do that.

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was BYU trying to screw over the MWC?

They needed a place for their non football teams to play. Utah didn’t have this problem since all their teams were moving to the Pac12 not just their football team. Since BYU knew Thompson would never let them stay in the MWC in everything but football, they had to make other plans. If they moved their non football teams to the WAC and then the MWC raided the WAC of all their good teams, it would really hurt BYU. So they were part of the 5 million dollar penalty to help protect the conference that was going to be the landing place for their non football teams.

As for Utah making their intentions known in advance, there was nothing to make known. It’s a given that if you play in a non AQ conference and a team from that conference gets invited to an AQ conference, they’ll except. It’s a no brainer. Going independent, on the other hand, is a lot more surprising which is way so many people are upset. But please stop acting like BYU did something underhanded.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Aug 20, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here is the difference

BYU worked the the WAC to sign the $5 million exit fee BEFORE they notified their current partners of their intent to leave.

Utah, never signed anything with the competion BEFORE they notified the MWC.

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

And to clarify

As of today, BYU still has not notified anyone of an official intent to leave the MWC.

by daedalus17 on Aug 20, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

how did Utah backstabbed the league

had BYU or TCU been invited to a better league they would have left in a second. Utah took the sure thing.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 22, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I just wrote this fan post and came and read your afterword. I said the same thing about “integrity”.

The LDS church strives for an image worthy of respect. This move by BYU tarnished that image.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 3:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Phenomenal

Nice work here, Josh. I can’t blame BYU for feeling a bit left out when Utah went to the Pac 10. That’s kind of like your little sister being invited to the prom while you’re still dateless. But, as you point out, BYU is being unrealistic to think of themselves as Utah’s superior – even their equal at this point.

by thefly7 on Aug 19, 2010 3:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Homeboy can write!

Really well written piece Josh.

The only thing I didn’t like was your intro. You feel sorry for Karl Benson? Really!?!? Benson took a big risk (poking the “bear” that is the mwc) for a paltry reward (byu in basketball and to give all of your football teams an ooc loss), and now he is paying the price. He is a terrible commissioner and he has captained the WAC into the toilet once again.

Don’t feel sorry for Benson be grateful that he is such a dope, if he wasn’t as incompetent as he is the MWC wouldn’t even exist.

"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator

by Ben Findley on Aug 19, 2010 4:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Agreed

Very well written. Did the research and put in nice commentary.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks...

now I just need better editing and posting skills!

by JoshWalrath on Aug 19, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I fixed the font type

so its even better!

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 19, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

If you have the nerve to state the BYU is terrible for trying to get out of a pathetic TV deal and improve their school’s chances and condemning them as evil(or so in you insinuations) by stating that they’re throwing the other MWC schools under the bus, then that SAME line of reasoning need apply to Utah. I don’t care HOW it happens, but Utah actually HAS thrown the other MWC school under the bus for greener pastures.

Calling out BYU and glorifying Utah is EXTREMELY hypocritical, ESPECIALLY at this juncture of the process.

by Smills9133 on Aug 19, 2010 6:37 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm not calling BYU terrible

but I am calling their approach terrible. You may disagree, but look at the reaction to this latest situation and compare it to when Utah left. The MWC added BSU, and then Utah left. No major midnight flights to Philly, no secret invitations to three different WAC schools, and no last minute conference calls and refusals to talk about what the other school was attempting to accomplish. Utah received an invitation from the PAC-10, which was not unexpected due to Utah informing the MWC that the PAC-10 was in negotiations with it.

I’m not saying that Utah could have stuck around for another 2 years and helped the MWC out, but at least they kept the discussion public.

by JoshWalrath on Aug 19, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Utah was honest

If you want a temple recommend you have to answer the following question:
Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?

BYU was leading on the other MWC teams like nothing was going on. At the same time they were making backroom deals that they knew would screw over the other MWC teams. Do you think this lying to the MWC teams to their face was honest?

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

how did Utah throw them under the bus?

Utah was invited while BYU did this on their own. They helped arrange the buyout to keep the WAC together will still being a member of the MWC and were playing both sides for about a week. I do not recall Utah doing anything close to making a secret deal with the Pac-10 while being in meetings with the MWC. That is the difference.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 22, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

nicely done on the write up

really interested to see where this all goes, its some pretty interesting stuff. I was hoping UNR would be given the chance to make the jump to the MWC all spring, this was not at all how I saw it happening. Some crazy drama surrounding this entire thing.

by sharks2 on Aug 19, 2010 6:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Assumptions apparently not true

You have made the assumption the BYU was not upfront with the conference. According to Boise State’s president, that is not the case. BYU approached the league about changing the TV arrangement and BYU’s President Samuelson than said that BYU was going to explore other options. He left the conference call. Apparently, the MWC presidents at the time knew BYU was going to leave and then, without BYU, decided to invite Fresno and Reno. I hardly call that behind the back dealing. I think both sides were playing a game of chess. BYU made the first move and the MWC made the second move—perhaps one that BYU did not think would happen.

by gambted on Aug 19, 2010 7:45 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm not of the mind to crucify BYU over this.

I would, however, like to know when they told the MWC about their intentions. If that announcement was made after they had set up the WAC with the buyouts, then BYU would not have told the MWC about this until after they had already made all their arrangments. If this had been known for a few weeks, then it’s as up-front as anybody could ask for.

And to a certain point, this gets a little pedantic. Whether BYU was trying to pull a fast one or whether they were as open as possible on this, it doesn’t change the current status of things now that all the cards are on the table. The MWC may very well have BYU as a part of the conference, and it’s in everybody’s interest to bury the hatchets and ensure good working relationships.

But it’s also going to make for some very interesting football this year.

by David Hooper on Aug 19, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

You really believe that?

So you think that the MWC was notified in advance that BYU was planning on leaving to go to the WAC.

That seems funny, Craig Thompson said in the MWC press conference that he knew in advance that the WAC was signing the $5 million dollar exit fee penalty. That sure was weird of him to wait until AFTER they signed the document to invite Nevada, Fresno, and Utah St. to the MWC.

The $5 million exit fee was signed by the WAC last FRIDAY.
Monday news breaks about BYU going independent with the WAC.
Craig immediately reacts and invites Utah St, Fresno St., and Nevada to the MWC.

Are you seriously saying BYU was upfront letting the the MWC know their intent? Craig Thompson didn’t even react until everyone heard the news through the press.

by daedalus17 on Aug 19, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

vague

by saying BYU is exploring all options including independence in passing and when pressed they just say they are exploring all options is not giving notice.

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by Jeremy Mauss on Aug 22, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nicely done, Josh.

Good research, good analysis.

Fear the Frog!

by SammyOBrien on Aug 20, 2010 10:12 AM PDT reply actions  


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