Mountain West Conference Expansion Checkup: The Altered Schedule
by rebelfan1 on Jun 4, 2010 2:45 AM PDT
in Conference Expansion
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The MWC Expansion Checkup will happen every Friday and will feature topics of MWC Expansion.
Note: This was written before the gigantic news about the hypothetical Pac-16...
In the comments of recent posts about expansion, questions and speculation about what are the options for the schedule, what is the best schedule type and which will happen. I'm going to try to answer those questions for all of you, although most of you probably will disagree.
Schedule Types
For this first type of schedule, I give credit to pappyman (a member here at Mountain West Connection) for coming up with this idea.
10 school division
This first schedule type is for if the MWC expands and adds only Boise St. to make 10 schools. This scheduling type is based off of the chance of the NCAA Bylaw that states you must have 12 teams and 2 divisions in order to have a championship game gets changed. The Pac-10 is currently pushing for this to happen, and if it does, it makes the schedule type viable. The idea is we have two divisions with 5 teams in each:
| Mountain Division | Western Division |
| Air Force | Boise St. |
| BYU | New Mexico |
| Colorado State | San Diego St. |
| Utah | TCU |
| Wyoming | UNLV |
Each team would play every team in it's division once and play four out of the five teams from the other division each year. The team that they miss each year would rotate, and the winners of each division would play the MWC Championship game one week after the regular season ends. So for instance, Boise St's first conference schedule in the MWC might look like this:
| Opponent |
| Utah |
| UNLV |
| Wyoming |
| New Mexico |
| TCU |
| San Diego St. |
| BYU |
| Air Force |
This kind of schedule satisfies a lot of issues with the new schedule. For one, schools might be concerned with a true round robin of 9 conference games a season, especially Air Force who would only have one non-conference game a year to schedule because they play Navy and Army every year. With only having 8 conference games, the big teams would only miss out on each other twice every five years.
Another issue is that if we were to expand to 12 teams and move to a Big 12 style schedule, or not created divisions with the 10 teams but still gone with an 8 game conference schedule, the big rivalries would not have stayed intact. For instance, the annual Border War, BYU-Utah game and CSU-Air Force game would have been canceled for a few years under the Big 12 style schedule and would disappear once every nine years under the 8 game conference schedule with out divisions. By putting in divisions and purposely keeping rivalries intact in the divisions, you do not have to worry about that.
One of the main problems with a true round robin was that since the all the top 25 teams would be pitted against each other, more losses happen and worse BCS rankings come about hurting our chances at a BCS Automatic Qualification. This issue could also be solved if for the first season with Boise St. in, each of the top 25 teams are purposely made to miss a game with the one of the other top 25 teams in the other division. If this happens, then we would get better BCS Rankings just for the year that we need them in order to get a BCS AQ.
The rest of the schedule types, which is the best and which will happen after the jump...
True Round Robin
Another schedule type that is an option if the MWC only adds Boise St. is a true round robin. As I went over before the jump, there are some issues with a true round robin, but there are some benefits to it. A true round robin is a conference schedule in which every team plays each other each season, that means no missing games. Here is what Utah's conference schedule in 2011 would look like:
| Opponent |
| BYU |
| UNLV |
| TCU |
| San Diego St. |
| Boise St. |
| New Mexico |
| Air Force |
| Utah |
| Wyoming |
This kind of schedule probably would hurt our BCS AQ chances a lot because the BCS rankings for 2011 would be lowered from all the head to head matchups. The good news is for all the schools that suck at football, they would get a guaranteed game against at least one of the four top 25 teams at home. When ever you, as a bad football school, have a top 25 team at home, you sell a lot of tickets and sometimes make double the amount of an average game. So as far as athletic departments for the bad teams go this would be a good format. For the top 25 teams, this would be bad because you have less of a chance of making it to a BCS Bowl, which brings in a lot of cash.
The Normal Schedule
The next kind of schedule is one with 10 teams, no divisions and 8 conference games. In this kind of schedule, you would miss a specific team every nine years. Here is what TCU's 2011 conference schedule would look like:
| Opponent |
| Utah |
| San Diego State |
| Air Force |
| Colorado State |
| Boise State |
| Wyoming |
| UNLV |
| BYU |
This kind of schedule presents a lot of benefits. For one, you would have less of a gap between missing teams than you would in the 10 school division format. Instead of missing a team in the other division every five years, you miss every nine years. This kind of format also satisfies the issue of only three non-conference games. As I discussed above, having only three non-conference games limits what the schools can do athletically. This kind of schedule also guarantees a home game against a top 25 school for the bad football schools. The Normal Schedule may have a lot of benefits, but it has a downside too. For one, in-conference rivalries would not happen once every nine years and rivalry games, whether the teams are good or bad, generate a lot of revenue.
The Big 12 Style
This format is for if we expand to 12 and add Boise St, Houston and Fresno St. This is basically a carbon copy of what the Big 12 does for its scheduling. We set up the divisions as North and South, like the Big 12. Here are what the divisions would look like:
| North | South |
| Boise St. | UNLV |
| Utah | TCU |
| BYU | San Diego St. |
| Air Force | Fresno St. |
| Wyoming | New Mexico |
| Colorado St. | Houston |
Here is what Houston's first MWC Conference Schedule would look like:
| Opponent |
| San Diego St. |
| Air Force |
| New Mexico |
| Boise St. |
| Colorado St. |
| UNLV |
| TCU |
| Fresno St. |
The Big 12 Style schedule presents a lot of problems. There is no balance in the divsions, the MWC North seems to be like the Big 12 South, stranding TCU with no for sure games against the rest of the top 25 teams. This also creates issues reagarding rivals. In-Conferernce Rivalries would be cut off and as I said before, rivalry games do bring in a lot of cash for the schools, whether they are good or bad. This type of schedule is one of the worst out of all the schedules I am presenting.
The ACC Style
Just like the Big 12 style, this schedule is for if we expand to 12, not just 10 schools, and just like the Big 12 style, this a carbon copy of what the ACC does. The ACC's division model has no regard for geography and is based on the caliber of the teams when the ACC expanded. So here is what the divsisions would look like in the Mountain West Conference:
| Mountain | Pacific |
| Boise St. | TCU |
| Utah | BYU |
| Air Force | Wyoming |
| Fresno St. | Houston |
| Colorado St. | UNLV |
| New Mexico | San Diego State |
The scheduling format for the ACC isn't what you would consider normal. Basically what happens is you play everyone in your division once, have one permanent rival in the other division and rotate the final two conference games in the other division. So if San Diego State was Fresno St.'s permanent rival, this is how Fresno St.'s first MWC conference schedule would might look like:
| Opponent |
| Boise St. |
| Air Force |
| Houston |
| New Mexico |
| San Diego St. |
| Colorado St. |
| TCU |
| Utah |
The ACC Style has a lot of benefits and problems to going with this kind of schedule. For one, this takes care of rivalries even though divisions aren't based on rivalries or geography. This makes divisions balanced as far as competition goes but does not guarantee the six marquee football matchups between Boise St., Utah, BYU, and TCU. TV Contract Negotiations will not reap as much cash because the MWC can not guarantee those games. The good news is that it keeps the rivalries intact, and that was an issue with some of the other schedules.
The Alternating Schedule
The Alternating Schedule is for a 12 team conference in which we have expanded to add Boise St., Fresno St., and Houston. The idea is just for scheduling in the ACC Style divisions. So once again, here are the divisions:
| Mountain | Pacific |
| Boise St. | TCU |
| Utah | BYU |
| Air Force | Wyoming |
| Fresno St. | Houston |
| Colorado St. | UNLV |
| New Mexico | San Diego St. |
Ok, so here comes the scheduling change. In the ACC style, I showed that we would have less power when negotiating for a new TV Contract, this change will solve that. In order to preserve the 6 marquee games, the better competition teams will have their schedule different from the other teams. Now I know what your thinking... The marquee teams can become bad and ruin the scheduling. That is why to determine who the four marquee teams are, whoever finished in the top two in combined division standings in the past four years gets to be considered a "marquee team."
First is how a marquee team's schedule would work. Basically you play everyone in your division once, the other two marquee teams once and the other four teams from the other division are rotated to play a marquee team once every four years. So BYU's 2011 conference schedule would look like this:
| Opponent |
| San Diego St. |
| TCU |
| New Mexico |
| Houston |
| Boise St. |
| Wyoming |
| UNLV |
| Utah |
Next is how a non-marquee team's schedule would look like. You play everyone in your division once, if you are up to have a conference game against one of the marquee teams, then you play one of the marquee teams for that year and that takes up one of your three out-of-division games. Overall you have 3 out of division games and the other 4 teams in the other division are randomly chosen for the games leftover from not playing the marquee teams in that division. So New Mexico's 2011 conference schedule might look like this if they were first up to play TCU:
| Opponent |
| Wyoming |
| Air Force |
| Fresno St. |
| Colorado St. |
| Utah |
| TCU |
| San Diego St. |
| Boise St. |
This kind of schedule takes care of a lot of problems with the ACC schedule. It solves the problem with the ACC Style schedule that in TV Contract Negotiations you would not be able to guarantee the six marquee games. The only issue with this schedule is that it breaks up some rivalries. You are not guaranteeed a game for some of the rivalries in this kind of schedule and that hurts the bad football schools.
The Best Schedule Type for the Mountain West Conference
For a 10 team conference
The best kind of schedule for the MWC would be the 10 school division. It takes care of all the "issues" I have listed and that makes it the best. Too bad that it probably won't happen, since it requires the changing of that NCAA Bylaw, it probably won't happen. Other than that, the Normal Schedule seems to be the best. It keeps the amount of non-conference games at four, not screwing Air Force like the True Round Robin would. It also guarantees those 6 marquee matchups for at least five straight years out of every nine years. So the 10 School Division is the best, but it probably won't happen. So in that case, The Normal Schedule is the best.
For a 12 team conference
The Alternating Schedule would be the best for the MWC. It makes sure that there are the six marquee games for TV Negotiations and yet evens out the divisions. Although this style does hurt some rivalries, the amount of cash that would come in from having a bigger TV Contract would out number the amount lost from not having the rivalry game. This Schedule type makes the most sense when you look at all the numbers.
Which Schedule Type will be implemented when expansion is over?
True Round Robin
The MWC needs as much conference exposure and this gives them the most for their TV Deal. The MWC doesn't like the idea of skipping games every year very much and the is ultimately what will cause this decision. The Mountain West Conference Comissioner Craig Thompson is probably going to try and make this conference look and act like a BCS Conference and the only other conference that has 10 schools is the Pac-10 and they have a true round robin. I truly do hope that I am wrong about this, but I think this is what will happen.
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Comments
I’m in favor of any format that has TCU play Boise every year, and against those that don’t.
“Gee, frog, seems like someone’s bitter…” Well… yeah. And Boise has credibility as a rival that TCU doesn’t have (at least until the Big 12 remnants are made available, come on Tech!) with the schools meeting in bowl games three times this decade, each at the end of one of TCU and Boise’s best seasons. It’s a natural season finale game.
That said, I’d like the first division split best, as that not only balances things out with the revised big 4, but keeps the Holy War annual and will help draw the lines when more teams are added in the future (K-State and Tech/Houston, welcome.)
i agree
Hey,
Just wanted to leave a quick comment – I came across your website while searching on Google on this topic, thanks for a great post, Are you on facebook or twitter?
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I follow both Houston and TCU very closely and Houston has finally climbed out of the pit it has been in for the past decade and will be a formidable team for years to come. They will likely be a BCS contender this year, along with TCU, BYU and possibly Utah.
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System
Personally I think that the normal schedule is the best overall system. It just works and doesn’t require tricky regulation changes to implement. This system has worked great for us in the last 10 years, and we don’t have any plans on changing that in the foreseeable future. In the end it boils down to the specific details of one’s’ conference though. Golden Retriever Lab Mix
Re: System
The divisions are designed to keep the traditional rivalries in tact ("Gang of Five") while still providing a "true" conference champion and an 8-game conference schedule (4 non-conference games). It is by far the best option for a 10-team league. The Horned Frogs would play EVERY TEAM except ONE in the conference EVERY SEASON.
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Yes!
I don’t know about Boise although my brother is a HUGE fan. I’d rather grab some duvet covers and just cozy up to watch any game! lol
Poker Rakeback
Thanks for the great post! I’ve been thinking about this exact same thing over the last few days, so it’s weird that you posted on it. You definitely did a much nicer job writing about it than I could have though. Poker Rakeback
Thanks for the great post!
Thanks for the great post! I’ve been thinking about this exact same thing over the last few days, so it’s weird that you posted on it. You definitely did a much nicer job writing about it than I could have though. Augmented Reality
keep the Holy War yes...
but ya have to keep the Border War too.. an adding K State??? i just dont like the idea of going to Manhattan Kansas.. much rather fly to Houston or to Amarillo an drive to Lubbock… much warmer..
the big 12 only has 12 teams. if the big ten , sec , pac-ten and you think the mwc would get 1 or 2
there are not enough teams to go around for those four conferences. dan beebe must be scared. all those statements coming out and i guess unemployment next.
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by wolfmanshowlforever on Jun 4, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
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by Roger Jipeng on Mar 31, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Thank you for such a good article that explains things quite brilliantly, I highly appreciate it, I would definitely take out time to spread this around.
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Will each team’s turn be broadcast on television? I’m wondering if they’re going to air the conferences on the same network or you have to subscribe to see them or something.
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by CarInsurance on Oct 27, 2011 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I personally like to modify the 8-game regular schedule.
You can’t skip the main rivalry (BYU-Utah, UW/CSU, etc) even every 9 years, so I would set up one or two guaranteed rivalries and then rotate the other 8 or 9 teams. I don’t want any more than 8 conference games, so any schedule that calls for 9 games is bad, IMO.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
agreed
Do what the Big 10 does, keep natural rivalries and then rotate the rest in an 8 game schedule.
Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!
by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 4, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Geography 101
Whatever style is finally adopted how about a little geographic sanity? In the 10-school alignment why in the name of common sense would anyone other than a bureaucrat have TCU fly OVER the state of Colorado and be aligned with UNLV and San Diego State? For crying out loud, this conference already has insane distances to cope with. Why go out of the way to make it UNNECESSARILY hard on the teams. With a dose of sanity TCU would align with New Mexico, Colorado State, Air Force and perhaps Wyoming creating a more regional division. Now, common sense seldom prevails in these matters but if it did, this would certainly make more sense. San Diego State? You gotta be kidding me. And the same principle applies to each of the scenarios presented.
Geography is an issue with most of these designs
But if we do it that way, then our divisions will look like the Big 12’s… What division does everyone talk about there? The Big 12 South. No one cares about the North because only Nebraska is competitive with the Big 12 South in football. I agree that we could go with a more regional division format, but then we would look like the Big 12 with slightly worse teams.
UNLV is going all the way this year!
Geography 101
I really don’t think that giving geography its due will make an expanded MW look like the Big 12. First of all in the 10 team alignment you would have TCU in one division and BYU and Utah in another. None of those teams is likely to decline in the near (or far) future. Boise State in the West with BYU and Utah would be a load, but you can’t have everything.
Move to 12 teams and bring in Houston to join TCU in the EAST would add balance to that division. That division would look very regional:
TCU
Houston
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado State
Wyoming
I follow both Houston and TCU very closely and Houston has finally climbed out of the pit it has been in for the past decade and will be a formidable team for years to come. They will likely be a BCS contender this year, along with TCU, BYU and possibly Utah.
We’re talking football here of course. Think “small sports” like womens volleyball. All that travel becomes a HUGE expense to the school. Plus, it limits fan support. Fewer fans and students are likely to jump on a plane to travel 1500 miles than, say, 300 to 800 miles. Just my opinion of course, but I have some experience here and those long trips are a bummer for everyone including the teams and their athletes, assuming of course the school really cares about such things.
Sounds good
I understand from the stand point of “small sports”
UNLV is going all the way this year!
i agree
I really don’t think that giving geography its due will make an expanded MW look like the Big 12
I follow both Houston and TCU very closely and Houston has finally climbed out of the pit it has been in for the past decade and will be a formidable team for years to come. defibrillator
by Mikel Balard on Dec 16, 2011 3:00 AM PST up reply actions
Geography is NOT an issue with the 10-school Divisional Alignment.
You have failed to realize something: TCU would play teams from the state of Colorado AND Utah EVERY SEASON. If they were scheduled to miss CSU, they would STILL play Air Force. If they were scheduled to miss Utah, they would STILL play BYU. The scheduling would probably be designed in a way to ensure you simply fly OVER one state without playing in it. For instance, if TCU missed BYU/CSU one season, they would be scheduled to play AT Utah/Air Force, or vice versa. The divisions are designed to keep the traditional rivalries in tact (“Gang of Five”) while still providing a “true” conference champion and an 8-game conference schedule (4 non-conference games). It is by far the best option for a 10-team league. The Horned Frogs would play EVERY TEAM except ONE in the conference EVERY SEASON. That would mean if they missed playing Colorado State one year, they would STILL play Air Force (cross over game), Wyoming (cross over game), Utah (cross over game) AND BYU (cross over game) to go along with the other members of their division. If you think about it, it is like blending the best aspects of the regular schedule with the best aspects of a true “round robin”, as it would provide a regular 8-game schedule AND having provide a “true” champion for the league. Let’s say that Utah and TCU were scheduled to miss each other one season and both of them were to hypothetically go undefeated in conference play that year. Both would be highly ranked, which would be great for the league. However, there would just one little problem: who would be the conference champion? Well, that is where the divisional setup comes into play. This problem would be resolved in the next week, as the Utes and the Horned Frogs would meet each other in the MWC Championship game. The winner would probably go to a BCS game, while the loser would likely not. This hypothetical game would be ABSOLUTELY HUGE in the eyes of the national media and for the teams involved. It would be the IDEAL conference scenario.
That seems to be another plus to the 10 school division
Seemingly everything is covered.
UNLV is going all the way this year!
Another typo.
It should read "as it would provide a regular 8-game schedule AND it would provide a “true” conference champion for the league. I changed what I was going to say mid-sentence without going back and making sure that it made sense.
Geography Again
pappyman, I don’t think I failed to realize anything. Trying to keep the length of these posts relatively short just means you cannot go into enough detail to cover all the points. I don’t disagree with you as long as we are talking about a 10 team conference. BUT all the scuttlebutt is that the MW is going to expand, and expand dramatically. In reality, even the 12 team model is probably limited. I look for the MW to follow suit with the other major conferences and expand to 14 and even 16 teams if enough quality programs are available.
The reality is the big dogs will likely move first and the MW will have to examine its strategy in light of where things stand following the next round of realignment. At that point I can assure you that new teams coming into this league are going to have concerns about the time and expense of skipping over teams that are 300 to 800 miles away to play teams that are 1500 to 1800 miles away.
I grew up in the old Southwest Conference and most of the schools were a bus ride away. The Mountain West grew out of the WAC and WAC teams are pretty used to the absolutely insane distances that exist between schools. This is simply not the case for other conferences which have a tighter geographic alignment. Even today many of the teams Houston, for example, plays are within an easy drive. This is great for fan involvement. Few Houston fans fly to North Carolina to watch UH play East Carolina or Florida for games against Central Florida. The same is also true for SMU, A&M and many local teams.
That also includes The University of Texas which has a monster fan base. UT travels well but they are the exception to the general rule. That is part of the reason UT is considering joining the PAC 10. They already have an athletic budget of $125 MILLION and can afford the expense.
The expense of funding travel for most schools for all the non-revenue sports is already prohibitive which is why many schools today do not have men’s soccer, tennis, and even men’s baseball. You can break the athletic budget funding all these otherwise worthwhile programs. I may be wrong, but remember I live in a different world than those of you who have been in the WAC/MW for all your lives. You take these distances for granted. That won’t be the case for new teams considering MW membership.
So, I guess my point is that the WAC/MW is going to get some interesting looks for programs coming on board which have existed in a very different world. Once you have 14 or 16 teams then the geographic alignment is going to not only make sense, it may be the only way some of these programs will consider joining the MW. When I began to follow TCU I was aghast at their travel demands. Trust me, they were too. I know too many TCU fans who really just gave up on road games with the team.
I don’t want this to be one of those win-lose discussions. You are correct up to a point. I only suggest that as change besets college football that we are all going to have to step outside our traditional way of looking at things. None of us really knows how all this is going to shake out. I can assure you that it will be different.
Why sell ourselves short?
I don’t like that this article says we should try to take teams from C-USA and the WAC. Now that we have Boise St, we are (believe it or not) a power conference. BYU, Utah, TCU and Boise St. are regular top 20 teams, and two of our teams played in BCS games last year. That’s tied for the most of any conference. So why are we talking about adding teams like Houston and Fresno St. (granted, both respectable programs) when we would look very appealing to teams from the broken Big 12, like Kansas and Kansas State? They would also give our rising basketball respect (first year that 3 teams made it to the NCAA) some very strong schools. I think it’s time that we stop competing with weaker, smaller schools, and start getting into the bigger game. Our football programs have proven that we can hang with some of the best, why not take this opportunity and show what we can do?
money
Title game is the reason for 12 teams, and is the reason to add C-USA or other WAC teams.
Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!
by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 14, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
There's also SEC-style scheduling...
Where you have a ‘permanent opponent’ in the opposing division (Florida-LSU, South Carolina-Arkansas, etc.).
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