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Should The Mountain West Continue Expanding?

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Now that Boise State's in the conference, some of the MWC's future is certain, but not all of it.

Rumors continue to swirl about the Big XII's demise, and the trend towards super conferences makes further expansion a tempting option. But is it the best one? Let's take a look at the pros and cons of several possible scenarios.

Scenario #1: The Mountain West, happy to add the Broncos, sits at 10 teams.

PROS:
-The conference can play a full round-robin format with a 9-game schedule, similar to what the Pac-10 did before Expansionacolypse.
-The league's teams can continue strengthening their already strong relationships by ensuring there isn't a two-year gap between matches.
-Potentially tricky divisional alignment issues are averted.

CONS:
-No title game without 12 teams.
-Not adding schools like Kansas (if interested) could play into the perception that the Mountain West is still only an 'upper middle tier' conference and not an elite one.
-The Mountain West does little to expand its revenue base by not adding large new markets.
-A 9-game schedule guarantees 5 extra losses among the 10 teams that could be 10 OOC wins. It also limits the ability of some teams (such as Air Force) to have loose OOC scheduling abilities.

Star-divide

Scenario #2: The Mountain West adds 2 teams to form a 12-team conference.

PROS:
-The conference can have a title game, which is an additional revenue stream.
-The ability to expand into large markets, potentially including Houston, Kansas City, St. Louis, or Dallas-Fort Worth.
-Potential for an increase in competition depth in other sports (basketball, baseball, etc.)

CONS:
-Not all conference title games are created equal. See: ACC Championship.
-Divisional alignments could crimp traditional match-ups, even potentially splitting rivalries into separate divisions.
-Scheduling becomes an issue (does the conference go Big XII-style with alternating cross-division opponents, or SEC-style with a permanent rival in each division; also, how does one do other sports? ACC expansion has shown us that playing only 1 game instead of 2 against opponents in basketball can take the fun out of things)
-Football quality may decrease.

ASPECTS:
-Divisional alignment could/would see UNLV, San Diego State, Boise State, Utah, BYU, and probably Wyoming in a 'Northwest Division,' with Colorado State, Air Force, TCU and 3 additions in a 'Central Division.' SEC-style scheduling would be recommended to make Colorado State and Wyoming 'permanent rivals' to maintain the Border War.

Scenario #3: The Mountain West adds 4-6 more teams to form a super conference of 14 or 16 teams.

PROS:
-Massive market penetration is likely.
-Potential for an increase in competition depth in other sports (basketball, baseball, etc.)
-Large divisions would essentially be like conferences in their own right, and thus an easier way of managing scheduling concerns.
-A possible return to the 'pod system' (pro?)

CONS:
-Quality of football competition is likely to decrease.
-A 'super conference' without a lot of quality winds up looking like the old WAC. The Mountain West was created to avoid situations like the old WAC.
-Large divisions would essentially be like conferences in their own right, and traditional match-ups from the current Mountain West would be played less often.
-A possible return to the 'pod system' (con?)
-As always, dividing the divisions up could be a tricky prospect.

ASPECTS:
-Potential alignment could include San Diego State, UNLV, Utah, BYU, Boise State, Wyoming, Colorado State, and Air Force in a 'Northwest Division, with TCU, New Mexico, and the newer additions forming a 'Central Division.'

------

That being said, there are several issues that remain important to the conversation:

1.) Just because the Mountain West could evolve into a full-fledged 'super conference,' it doesn't guarantee the media won't still treat it like a mid-major. If the 'super conference' trend continues, it's widely speculated that FBS football would wind up with 5 'super conferences,' and the traditional powers-that-be run the other conferences.

2.) Just because a Big XII implosion would orphan 5 schools from a 'BCS conference,' it neither means they'll give the MWC credibility, nor does it mean that these schools are seeking to play in the Mountain West.

3.) There's still the very real possibility that the 5 Big XII leftovers raid C-USA for teams, forming a conference with roughly the same footprint as the Big XII, but without the football luster (Houston, SMU, UTEP, Tulsa, Memphis, and/or Rice and 1 other team - likely Tulane, Louisiana Tech, or North Texas). If they took 6 teams from C-USA they'd still maintain BCS/Basketball tournament eligibility requirements, and a Kansas, K-State, Memphis, and Baylor anchored basektball conference, coupled with historical powers UTEP and Houston would be one Hell of a basketball conference.

4.) The conference expansion/raiding game isn't over. The PAC-# could still try and take Utah away from the MWC, and the SEC may well try and pluck TCU if Texas A&M tries to join. The Big Ten could also up and decide to take some remnant pieces of the Big XII (Kansas, or maybe even Missouri), removing the best potential pick-ups from the board. 

Poll
Should the Mountain West continue expanding?
No - 10 teams is ideal for scheduling and new teams won't increase the depth or quality of the conference.
32 votes
Yes - to 12 Teams. Whatever scheduling concerns happen are worth it, and there are at least 2 quality teams out there.
174 votes
Yes - to 14/16 teams. Super conferences have more credibility, and there's at least 4-6 more quality additions out there.
85 votes

291 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 35 comments  |  Add comment  |  1 recs  | 

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There is too much on the table yet to say.

Texas A&M appears to be hedging on the SEC rather than going to the PAC 10 outright. If they go to the SEC the PAC 10 will need another team and Utah is a likely candidate.

The Big 10 is looking disinterested in Missouri, though I don’t expect a final move by the Big 10 until next off season.

If the MWC can get Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri that would be a win, regardless of what happens with Utah.

I am pretty sure the MWC would then be treated equal to the ACC/Big East and would likely have a Fiesta Bowl bid to seal their BCS Status.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Jun 11, 2010 8:29 PM PDT reply actions  

I don’t think A&M makes it into the SEC, and I’m not sold on the idea that Kansas, K-State, and Missouri are interested in the Mountain West. I could be horribly wrong, but I think they’d rather raid the C-USA.

by VA Libertarian on Jun 11, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

They won't raid the C-USA and keep the Big 12 name.

In order to keep any automatic bids in regards to sports, a conference must have at least 6 schools that have played together for 5 years. That means that if the Big 12 raids C-USA, then their NCAA Basketball Tournament bid is lost, their BCS Automatic Bid are gone for the next 5 years. And at that point, they would probably not be able to regain those bids. Would not make sense for the C-USA teams to jump ship to the Big 12 and not have an automatic bid for five years. Plus it doesn’t make sense for the Big 12 to raid C-USA because they wouldn’t have the bids for 5 years. If they go to the MWC, they get the bids, possibly including a BCS Bid, and have better competition and more revenue from the league. It would make all the more sense for the Big 12 leftovers to go to the MWC than raiding the C-USA to keep the Big 12 name.

UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Jun 11, 2010 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually..

As long as they take at least 6 schools from the C-USA, they’ll keep their basketball bid. If they keep the Big XII name, they also get to keep the BCS automatic bid as long as the BCS doesn’t review the AQ status anytime soon (though I think they do this year?).

No offense to MWC fans, but I grew up in Big XII territory, (though I live in MWC territory now) – Kansas, K-State, Missouri, etc…. I think they’d rather join up with schools closer to them who are good in basketball. There won’t be a huge football revenue difference between raiding the C-USA and joining the MWC, and it may even be to their slight advantage, as they’ll have bigger markets than the MWC (Houston, DFW, KC, St. Louis, Memphis, etc.). TCU doesn’t command as much Texas market share as 4 Texas schools would, trust me.

by VA Libertarian on Jun 11, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

rule

Is for any six teams regardless of league as long as they were in the same league and they will keep bids. At least that is what I took from the rule.

Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!

by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 11, 2010 9:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I believe that is right for football

for Basketball they have to have 6 that have played together for 5 years in order to keep the auto bid.

Although the auto-bid doesn’t mean much when you have KU, KSU and Mizzou who could earn at large along with a couple from C-USA.

by B Money on Jun 12, 2010 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

BIll Hancock told me

A conference would retain its BCS status as long as it is recognized by the NCAA.

C-USA does not have one, so any six teams from C-USA would not bring a BCS AQ to the table.

The MWC with a Fiesta Bowl berth, garnered from the Big 12, would.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Jun 12, 2010 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

good to know on that front

So, unless CUSA or MWC gained enough teams and meet the criteria then they would get an auto bid?

Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!

by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 12, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Big 12? Yes.

The auto bid criteria for the MWC and C-USA would remain the same, it would be based on 2011 membership so the current expansions would not effect the rankings.

Except for Boise State and Nebraska.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Jun 12, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think a tug of war will happen

But it will be the MWC vs. Big East not MWC vs. C-USA.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Jun 12, 2010 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

The Big East has a lot more clout than the C-USA, in both football and basketball. The only problem the Big East has is that they may lose teams to the Big Ten. If the remaining four Big Ten expansion teams all come from the Big East, the MWC suddenly becomes a much better option. Just to throw a scenario out there, suppose that Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, and Connecticut joined the Big Ten. What of the remainder of that conference would be appealing to the Kansas schools?

That, and if the Big Ten begins to cannibalize the Big East, the ACC will likely start taking bites from the other end. Maybe Pittsburgh and West Virginia go to the ACC and the Big Ten picks up – oh, Syracuse and Rutgers. (I’m just pulling names; don’t read too much into it.) At that point, what of the Big East is left that isn’t a basketball-only conference?

But yes, C-USA isn’t in a good position to take advantage of all this.

by David Hooper on Jun 12, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

C-USA could only take advantage

if you consider Iowa State and Baylor an advantage. I think all the dominoes will end up cannibalizing the Big East like you said, and that is why we will get the Big 12 left overs that we choose.

UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Jun 12, 2010 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

My other concern is TCU.

There’s still the possibility that the PAC goes for TCU instead of Utah. The prime reason for doing this would be to shut the MWC out of Texas. After all, that was the primary reason for keeping TCU when the WAC split apart in the 90s. TCU wouldn’t add much in the way of viewership compared to Utah, but they’re respectable in enough sports and would make a great in-state foil for Texas.

I could see TCU being a plan B if the PAC decides to not pursue Utah.

by David Hooper on Jun 12, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Utah is plan C

Plan A: Texas A&M – wants SEC badly
Plan B: Kansas – would need to get state approval to separate from Kansas State
Plan C: Utah

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Jun 12, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I should have been a touch clearer on that.

I meant my other concern as far as MWC teams go. Under the condition that the PAC ends up pursuing a MWC team (for whatever reason), TCU would be as big of a loss as Utah, but for different reasons.

by David Hooper on Jun 12, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting

Would make travel easier with Texas and Tech for other sports, and CU is close enough for a short flight it does not matter they are by themselves.

Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!

by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 12, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

so true

CUSA may make a small move but nothing that big to challenge the MWC

Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!

by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 12, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I didn’t understand what you (whomever bumped this to the mainpage) meant by “Built in extra loss with a nine game schedule which would hurt bowl chances” as a con on the 10-team format, so I deleted it. Did you mean to say it limits OOC scheduling (i.e. Air Force only gets 1 game to fill in addition to a 9-game MWC schedule and the academies), or were you implying there were extra chances to lose (which could happen in an OOC game anyway)?

by VA Libertarian on Jun 11, 2010 9:44 PM PDT reply actions  

it was me

I meant built in conference loss would be guranteed with 9 games compared to 8. Yes they could have same amount of losses but for example if league goes 10-0 in 4th OOC game but with 3 OOC game that last game would be a league game thus five guranteed conference losses which would affect bowl options.

Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!

by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 11, 2010 10:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Gotcha. Good point. I’ll re-add it now that I understand what you meant.

by VA Libertarian on Jun 11, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

12 Teams

And this is a hard one. With Missouri looking like a dejected brat of a child and Kansas and Kansas State looking lost it could be a toss up between three quality schools that offer something. Honestly, I don’t see the MWC pulling Missouri. If nothing else they’ll leach onto one of the East Coast conferences and put up with the hassles of travel. Kansas and Kansas St. might do the same. Hopefully they’ll realize that the MWC is going to be a highly competitive conference if all the original members stay and they come on board. It won’t be if we (yep, I used it, sigh of relief and feeling of joy) get an AQ…but when. Unfortunately for the Big 12, 6 of the original members would have to stay to rebuild the conference. So if there are 5 teams left, they’re free for the poaching and the Big 12 is no more. Here’s hopin’ Texas sees the way of the PAC. And forget the 16 team conference…that trash is about tv and money…not sports. I have a feeling the other conferences will be purging teams somewhere down the line.

by ThePhlipinSituation on Jun 12, 2010 6:14 AM PDT reply actions  

The thing about the Big East is hoops

They have 16 teams in basketball 8 in football since the other half are in the FCS. Not sure if they want an 18 team or 20 team hoop league. That is why I think the Big East can not do too much unless they kick out some non FBS football playing schools.

Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!

by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 12, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not quite

Georgetown and Villanova are FCS (Villanova is an elite FCS team that has shown no interest whatsoever in moving to FBS, no matter how much encouragement the Big Eat has given them — also, they have no place to play that seats enough to meet FBS rules; Georgetown has a bad non-scholarship team). Notre Dame doesn’t play Big East football. The other 5 non-football members of the Big East (Providence, Seton Hall, St. John’s, Marquette, DePaul) don’t sponsor football at all.

However, the current 16-team format was specifically designed to allow the football members to split without penalty in 2010.

by drothgery on Jun 12, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

12 Teams

Conference Championship game, poised to make moves from there if they eventually wanted to move towards superconference.

It was all just a dream...

by MasinMud on Jun 12, 2010 10:34 AM PDT reply actions  

This may sound overly simplistic but

If you can add quality teams (Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Missouri, Fresno State, etc.) to the conference than do it. But don’t just add teams for expansion’s sake. That doesn’t help and it would turn the MWC into the old WAC which was a complete disaster. Getting KU should be the number one priority and coupling them with K-State would be equally as important. Basically just add Big XII leftovers. I don’t think grabbing C-USA teams helps at all.

--Conquest Chronicles , SBNation's USC Trojans blog

Follow me on Twitter @Joey_Kaufman

by Joey Kaufman on Jun 12, 2010 12:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Only C-USA team that helps is Houston

They have a good if not great football program that is supposed to start the season ranked this season. The basketball team went to the NCAA Tournament last season. They’re fundraising to upgrade their facilities. They are also in the Houston TV Market, which is huge. Everyone says that Houston doesn’t control that market though, right? Well let’s make an analogy, in the Big Ten, Syracuse and Rutgers don’t cover New York, but they are both given the New York market and that helps in TV Negotiations. If you’re able to say “Our games will reach TV’s in the New York market” That practically gives you $2M more per year just from that. Same thing applies with Houston. Houston doesn’t cover their TV Market, but they do help in TV Negotiations.

Houston does help out alot, but other than that, no C-USA team is good.

UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Jun 12, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd say UTEP is good

in some things. Good match for New Mexico

Colorado Rockies correspondent at My Team Rivals (www.mtrmedia.com/rockies) and my own site Rockies Reporter (www.rockiesreporter.wordpress.com) and one of the top Rockies writers at the Bleacher Report.

by Redhawk on Jun 12, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

More on Houston

Well…..since you brought it up and ONLY for anyone who is interested (don’t want to bore the readers) here is an interesting post on a Houston blog from CBS announcer, Jim Nance, who is a University of Houston grad (he was Fred Cupples’s roomie in college):

http://blogs.chron.com/cougars/

As for UTEP, there are some advantages to bringing them in. First, they were previously in the WAC and would make a great rival game with New Mexico. Believe me, UTEP is all about the West. Secondly, I can tell you from playing them every year they are on the rise. They haven’t quite turned the corner but the administration at UTEP seems committed to building the program. Finally, having UTEP, TCU and Houston in the MW will give the conference some tremendous clout in Texas, both in the media wars and in recruiting athletes. It would off-set some of the power in the state of the PAC-64, whatever, when they bring in UT and OU. My two cents.

by HouTX on Jun 12, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which two out of Mizzou, Kansas and KSU?

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by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jun 12, 2010 2:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Kansas and Mizzou

I would love this idea if Kansas and KSU weren’t connected by the Kansas government, but if we’re going to add to out of three it would probably be Kansas and KSU because of the package deal. Although Mizzou and Kansas makes more sense.

UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Jun 12, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Mizzou / Kansas adds the most, but the state probably wouldn’t allow KU/KSU to go separate ways. Even if it means relegating both of them to C-USA.

by David Hooper on Jun 12, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

It appears KSU, KU, and Mizzou

are the predominant entities being discusses above regarding realignment/expansion… The SB Nation blogs for those 3 have a good deal of content that contains some pieces about fans’ opinions/ideas about MWC and MWC v. SEC v. PAC-#, etc. (I’m not sure if sifting through the realignment talk not relating at all to MWC is worth the MWC pieces, but figured I’d include the links anyways).

KSU Bring On The Cats
KU Rock Chalk Talk
Mizzou Rock M Nation

I, for one, am in favor of joining the MWC as-is over the Big East (if the Big XII finishes sinking this year/before MWC pursues other avenues).

--VegasCat07

by VegasCat07 on Jun 13, 2010 3:38 PM PDT reply actions  

All expansion

Talk is interesting to me, and most will find its way back to the MWC indirectly.

Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!

by Jeremy Mauss on Jun 13, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

i do know one thing.

kansas and k-state will never be in the sec. i read that maybe they could on espn but i don’t think the sec plays football where it’s cold in october and november. ain’t going to happen.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Craig Thompson just might end up being a savvy guy. Hell is just a word, the reality is much much worse." Event Horizon". Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad dog mean. cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live or win. That's just the way it is. "The Outlaw Josey Wales". To protect the sheep you gotta catch the wolf, and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf. "Training Day". Rashad will beat Rua b/c it's a bad matchup for him. 2/1 odds. Josh Koscheck will dethrone Gsp and win the welterweight title. 2.9/1 odds on that too. Peace.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Jun 14, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know where anyone could get that idea from

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UNLV is going all the way this year!

by rebelfan1 on Jun 14, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  


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