Mountain West Basketball Power Poll: 2/22/2010
by Jeremy Mauss on Feb 22, 2010 3:29 PM PST
in Basketball Power Rankings
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PrintNew Mexico takes over the top spot this week while the rest is pretty much the same. To see how everyone voted check the votes after the jump.
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- New Mexico
- BYU
- San Diego State
- UNLV
- Colorado State
- Utah
- TCU
- Wyomng
- Air Force
- BYU
- San Diego State
- New Mexico
- UNLV
- Utah
- Colorado State
- TCU
- Wyoming
- Air Force
- New Mexico
- BYU
- San Diego State
- UNLV
- Colorado State
- Utah
- TCU
- Wyoming
- Air Force
- New Mexico
- BYU
- San Diego State
- UNLV
- Utah
- Colorado State
- TCU
- Wyoming
- Air Force
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Comments
Honestly,
I think the Lobos are overrated. I do not see them being a top 10 team in the nation; to me, they’re a 20-25 tier team.
Me as well
It’s funny that they struggle to beat the MWC powerhouse AFA @ home by 3 and yet they remain at the top. Interesting.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 22, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
Don't be so hard on yourself, Rockies:
We had one bad game against AFA. RPI is very telling of team talent. Our RPI rank is 9. We’ve beat all of the top-25 teams we’ve faced. We are 7-2 against top 50 RPI teams. We’ve owned the Big 12 teams we’ve played, in particular Texas A&M before they lost Derrick Roland.
If you want to have the discussion of whether we are worthy of being ranked 10, fine. We can argue that. I’d like to think that as MWC fans, we’d cheer our BYUs, UNMs, UNLVs, and SDSTs to do well in the rankings. But to think that we aren’t best in the MWC right now is ridiculous. Who would you say is better, BYU?
The same BYU that loaded up on a cupcake non-conference schedule? The one who has an RPI rank outside the top 20? The one’s who barely beat the likes of Nebraska and Fresno St.? Not to mention the fact that they lost to us, and we have the better conference schedule.
So vaughnzipper, I’m sure you can find better things to do then whine right now. You should be biding your time until the 27th, when you have some chance for revenge. If you beat us then you’ll no doubt be tops in the MWC power rankings that week. But until you’ve beat us, you have nothing over us. Nothing.
As a matter of fact, even if you do beat us, you would have to beat us again in the conf tourney for bragging rights. And even then, you might not get a higher seed than us in the NCAAs because we have the better RPI.
What’s really funny, vaughnzipper, is that this year we weren’t even supposed to be on top of the MWC, much less ranked 10th. I attribute some of our shaky performances to our youth. Must be frustrating to know that coach Alford and UNM basketball is just getting started, huh? ;-)
I’m sorry my first real post in the MWCConnection was a little negative. I’m usually fine with criticism of my team, or good-natured ribbing. But I’ve gotta point out when criticism is unjustified.
The only reason to not like the Lobos on top of the MWC power rankings are jealousy and a healthy dose of hater-ade. See you the 27th, BYU.
That's cool, rockies.
I kinda combined my reply to you with my reply to vaughnzipper. Again, I understand if you think the national ranking is a bit unjustified. I just disagree with the notion that we aren’t at least top 20.
Thanks for joining the discussion.
Stick around.
I'm a Rebel, but I bleed the cherry and silver of the Lobos.
Fairly easy pick
For me UNM was the easy number 1. Best RPI, best record, head to head win over BYU, and longest winning streak. On an 11 game win streak your going to have close games no matter who you are, UCONN women excluded.
Bring back Fum's Song!
Agreed
They have been playing the best and have a good winning streak going on. This Saturday when UNM plays BYU could change this discussion.
by Jeremy Mauss on Feb 23, 2010 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
This is comical!
" The one who has an RPI rank outside the top 20? The one’s who barely beat the likes of Nebraska and Fresno St.? Not to mention the fact that they lost to us, and we have the better conference schedule."
I’m sorry but do you know anything about what you’re saying? You are aware that BYU started out the Nebraska game on a 37-5 run right? If barely beating a Big 12 team that was 9-2 at the time by 22 is in your opinion “barely beating” then how do you explain your 3 point victory over @home to in conference juggernaut 1-11 AFA?
Sorry our RPI is 22, not good enough for your top 20 class.
But the best argument you made in this joke of a comment was that you have a better conference schedule than us. Ummm…. let’s see. You lost at home to UNLV and @SDSU. BYU lost @UNLV and UNM the other top 2 powers in the conference. Now would it look better to lose at home or away? If you had half a brain you’d know that you have to defend your home and that losing at home is more detrimental to your score than losing on the road. One last point, don’t we play the exact same conference schedule. Yeah, you’re a genius.
So if we do beat you on Saturday who has bragging rights? Why would we have to beat you in the tourney to finally earn them in your opinion?
FYI, if you’re going to bring up close wins look no further than your own schedule lobo23. Let’s see 9-19 USD by 4, 14-14 Creighton by 5, 18-8 Dayton by 2, 12-14 Utah by 7, 9-18 Wyoming by 2, close one to BYU @home by 4 (JF playing at 75% with mono still scored 27), a 2 point win at home over SDSU (they nabbed you by double digits when you went there by the way), oh and that 3 point win over Utah that took you overtime to get, and last weeks shocking win by 3 over 9-16 AFA @home. Let’s not forget the loss to 17-12 Oral Roberts (RPI of 124). UNM had 13 wins by 10 points or less. BYU had 6 wins by 10 or less. Facts are facts son.
Let’s review the average RPI of each teams losses:
BYU – UNLV 43, UNM 10, USU 34 = 29 <—————- winner
UNM – ORU 124, SDSU 38, UNLV 43 = 68.3
Welcome to MWC Connection, be prepared to bring facts because as much as you love your team nobody cares.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
Kinda touchy on the subject, huh?
Nebraska- You got me, dude. I was looking at your schedule and mixed that up with Nevada, a game you won by 6 points a few days before. You know, all the schools you play are generic strawmen, so give me a little leeway. But you still are missing the point. EVERY school is going to have close games against bad teams. Look at Duke. Won by 3 against lowly Boston College.
RPI- glad you cede this crucial part of the argument.
Conference schedule- that’s right, our record in the conference is 1/2 a game better than you. And you are also right, we play the same teams. That’s what conference play is. Its the non-conference schedule I was making a point on. You play cupcakes. We play good teams. And win.
Would it look better to lose home or away? You say it looks bad to lose at home. I could turn around and say it looks good to win on the road.
Bragging rights- If you win on Saturday, you have a claim to be in the lead in the conference power rankings because of recent performance. You DON’T have bragging rights because at that point you will have only brought the head-to-head record at 1-1. At that point you’d have to beat us in the conf tourney to get bragging rights, chief. If WE beat you Saturday… :-)
Close wins- Again, my point is that close wins mean next to nothing. It’s the Ws that count. In fact, margin of victory is the only thing which you are better than us. Then again, it might also be because you have a weak non-conference schedule and easy teams to run up the score on.
RPI losses- You think you have a better team because you lose to good teams? haha I agree you are better losers. Good luck in the NCAAs. We win against quality opponents.
Here’s the facts that matter, son.
-Better RPI.
-Won the head to head.
-On top the conference standings.
I get it, vaughnzipper. You were feeling a bit down about being #2, made a comment, and weren’t expecting to get called on it. We all do it sometimes. All I’m saying is, why not wait 5 days to make your case? If you win, you’ll have the top spot. Until then, we are the best in the MWC. So keep your obscure arguments about margin of victory and being the better loser on the DL. Come Saturday, you may have a better one.
It's not the first time.
vaughnzipper often brings invalid arguments to the table. I posit that he brings them prematurely so that he can point back to them and say, “I told you so,” as if that would make his arguments valid all of a sudden. He did here, but he couldn’t say, “I told you so,” and thus, we never heard of it again…until now.
VZ,
Welcome to MWC Connection, be prepared to bring facts because as much as you love your team nobody cares.
On thing though, ChiLobo: if BYU wins on Saturday, they will have bragging rights because they will have the best record. In the case of a tie head-to-head (important distinction, VZ), the loses would matter and we would have lost a game they hadn’t…unless SDSU beats them on Wednesday.
I'm a Rebel, but I bleed the cherry and silver of the Lobos.
by Role Player on Feb 23, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Again
Bring facts to the table. Your love affair for the worst team in the MWC doesn’t cut it.
I’m not up to writing novels back and forth with you so I’ll keep it short:
-I love your sarcasm towards me about the conference talk when you’re the genius who made the error.
-It’s better to lose away than to win at home, and it’s worse to lose at home than win away.
-Your close wins comments is just dumb. You ever heard of Pomeroy?
- As for your final comment, your buddy roleplayer will support this, I don’t back down after a rebuttal. Give me a minute to respond and I’ll give you my points again. You didn’t call me out on anything because you can’t argue facts. I brought facts, you did not.
As for roleplayers link, you both fail to notice that I said things like “I think” or “I can’t agree”, I never once said that my comments were facts. The difference between my arguments then and my arguments now is that I’m using facts to support why your logic is wrong. The purpose of a blog is to share your opinion, I’m all for it. But when I provide a fact to back up what is said and you come back with your Lobos education of why my fact is wrong then you my friend look like the bright guy. In that case I’ve been taught not to be rude towards handicaps.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I could go on and on about the Pythagorean formula and it's predictive
success, (or lack thereof) in college bb.
UNM
Has not stumbled lately like BYU’s small slip up. That is why I have New Mexico one, and the answer will be solved this weekend when they play each other.
by Jeremy Mauss on Feb 23, 2010 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
I always see people point to RPI
which is great for fans, etc., to get an idea where teams stand. But it means nothing come selection Sunday. They don’t look at RPI.
RPI is a significant guide for the selection committee, particularly in matters of seeding.
From Wikipedia:
“The selection committee uses a number of factors to place teams on the S-curve, including record, strength of schedule, the Ratings Percentage Index (RPI), and a team’s overall performance in recent games. The RPI rating is often considered a significant factor in selecting and seeding the final few teams in the tournament field, though the selection committee stresses that the RPI is used merely as a guideline and not as an infallible indicator of a team’s worth.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_basketball_tournament_selection_process
Every expert I've ever heard talk about the selection process (including people who have been in the room) has said
the committee barely looks at RPI, if at all. So I’m not really going to trust wikipedia on that, since it’s not infallible.
Holly, the selection committee is allowed, but not required, to look at RPI.
ESPN article on the selection committee
AND
Official Selection Committee Rules
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Feb 23, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
Bottom line...
Byu has no wins over any team rated in the top 25 in the country in either poll and in fact have only played one game against a top 25 opponent and lost…to none other than UNM…..UNM is 4-0 against AP top 25 teams, and 5-0 against ESPN top 25 teams…. we may not always look pretty, but this isn’t ice dancing…it’s basketball.
Now I know I'm dealing with a moron
UTEP is #25 in the Coaches, the only poll that matters, and that was @UTEP without JF.
Of all your great top 25 wins, only 1 remains in the top 25, A&M. Again, you bring nothing to the table to support your facts.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure I want to jump into this but...
It doesn’t matter if Ferdette was playing or not, BYU is not just BYU when he is playing. BYU still played that game and lost. Injuries are not an excuse for any loss.
I could sit here and say that the Rams would be a lot better with Jesse Carr (they are missing a true PG so it would be a big boost) but it doesn’t matter because they are the Rams, not the Jesse Carr’s.
Like I said earlier…
For me UNM was the easy number 1. Best RPI, best record, head to head win over BYU, and longest winning streak. What does BYU have on that?
Bring back Fum's Song!
I see your point bhs but I have to disagree
The team I was talking about UTEP and how without JF they still bet them, and they’re ranked in the top 25. I’m not going to say BYU blows without JF, he just means more to BYU than anyone else. I made this comment in a post a couple weeks ago but JF is to BYU what Lebron is to Cleveland. A great team with him that can go places but without him they’re just average. Can that be argued? The way it sits JF is going to win the MWC POY and for good reason, they’re is nobody else like him in the league. Your own coach has said so himself.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Wow, RolePlayer was right.
So, the only way that you can say BYU is the best is to use weird arguments about what JF means to your team? Or using qualifying statements? When all the hard facts don’t support you?
How convenient of you.
And you didn’t respond to the second part of his post where he stated his reasoning.
Like you didn't respond to all of your top 25 wins
I chose not to respond because facts are facts and he brought them. There’s no need for a response. To respind to the question at the end of his comment I would say that the only poll that matters in the end is the coaches, it just so happens that BYU is ranked ahead of UNM in that poll.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I saw your oh-so-clever comment about the Coaches poll
and knew the reasoning behind it, but left it alone.
What would that be?
From what i see the guys who actually coach the game and not just watch and write about it (like you and I and the AP) seem to think BYU is the better team.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 4:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Coaches Poll
Is just as dumb in college basketball as it is in football. I would bet my tuition that Coach K, Jim Boehiem, and Tom Izzo don’t get the MTN and have yet to see any MWC games. Maybe a highlight here or there but no way they can watch every team in the nation and rank them.
Bring back Fum's Song!
C'mon, VZ, take it EZ! No need for namecalling.
The facts tram and I put forth have been supported. Common knowledge.
Besides, BYU and UNM are playing great basketball right now. We’re both going dancing in March. Is it really that bad that you are 2nd in the Mountain West right now? Even if its to UNM?
No
Just like your first post said “I’m usually fine with criticism of my team, or good-natured ribbing. But I’ve gotta point out when criticism is unjustified.” I live by the same attitude.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Good point
You got me. But then again you haven’t completed the series by coming to Provo. This Saturday will be awesome! I’m pissed I didn’t get tickets, I do have them for SDSU though. Good games!
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 5:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You idiot
Just kidding, and I knew your thinking of other teams other than BYU; I just had to clear things up.
then its equal
Because BYU has a current top 25 win as does New Mexico. Basically we are splitting hairs. New Mexico does have a bad loss to Oral Roberts (not sure how) while BYU’s worse loss is to a good Utah State team. These teams are very close. Just look at their national rankings very close, and the winner on Saturday should be in the top 10.
by Jeremy Mauss on Feb 23, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's part of the formatting.
If you use a pound sign with a number, it thinks you want a numbered list.
Bottom line
This blog is giving each of us a forum to share our opinions (based on facts) and discuss why things are the way they are. BYU being ranked #2 doesn’t bother, I think they’ll earn that spot back by Sunday. If you’re offended that I called out your love for UNM by providing facts then I think you and I are setting ourselves up for a lot of fun conversations.
Right...
You brought nothing but facts, and I…didn’t?
Ok, you win, vaughnzipper. I guess I can’t put together any kind of coherent argument to refute your factual tour-de-force. BYU would’ve gone undefeated if JF only could’ve kept his kisser away from some mono-infected sorority chick.
Now reply to one of my posts to prove you’ve got the last word and we’ll postpone any further arguments til Saturday.
Ummm
So you are handicap! Open your eyes Stevie Wonder.
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 4:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You two are awesome!
MWCConnection needs more passionate fans like you two posting. When I started writing here I hoped the community would grow into something like this.
Bring back Fum's Song!
It is a lot of fun
It’s a good break from my boring classes
by vaughnzipper on Feb 23, 2010 5:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
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