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NFL Style Playoff for College Football

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It has always been curious to me that college football has not developed a playoff.  Almost every sport that doesn't use empirical data to compare athletes/teams to each other (like track or weightlifting) has instituted a playoff to decide a champion through direct competition.  While most reasonable people have concluded that the NCAA should have a playoff many still disagree on which type playoff system should be used. 

After years of research. I have decided that the best playoff model is a modified NFL style playoff.  Now, I do not claim full credit for this idea, originally I read the majority of this proposal on a message board years ago but didn't put much thought into it at the time.  It was only after I began contemplating this idea a couple years later did I discover that this was (in my opinion) the best option for college football for a multitude of reasons.  However, for me to illustrate WHY this is the best system one must understand the other post season proposals and their flaws.

Star-divide

The Current system for BCS Bowls and the Nation Championship Game (two team playoff)

This puts ten teams into 5 elite bowls with pundits and computers selecting the top 2 that play for a national title.

  • 6 Automatic Qualifying (AQ) Conference Champions (Big East, Pac 10, Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, and SEC) receive automatic bids
  • 1 Non AQ team (from CUSA, MAC, MWC, Sun Belt, and WAC) will receive an automatic bid if in the top 12 or 16 if ranked higher that an AQ champ
  • Notre Dame gets automatic bid if in top 8
  • Top 2 teams are automatically in the BCS NCG
  • The BCS number 3 gets a spot if they are from an AQ conference and if there is still room
  • If number 3 rule wasn't necessary the number 4 team will receive a bid if they are from an AQ conference and there are spots left.
  • After all automatics have been filled the at large selection can begin, these teams are chosen by the bowls among top 14 teams with 9 or more wins.
  • Only 2 teams from the same conference can play in the BCS bowls.

Criticisms: NCG and BCS games are biased to big AQ schools, many schools go undefeated and have no chance to participate, the BCS bowls normally take the most profitable teams and not always the best top ranked teams, some years multiple schools from the same conference deserve and chance to play.

Other playoff proposals

The Plus One model (4 team playoff)

Take the top 4 teams in the BCS and stage a four team playoff using the bowl system.

Criticisms: mostly the same as the current system just now we argue over top 4 instead of two.  An undefeated Ball St or Tulsa would never have a chance, and Boise St up until recently wouldn't have either, this system also wouldn't have solved the 2008 Big 12 three way tie or when there were 5 undefeated teams in 2009.

The Obama straight 8 model (8 team playoff)

Take the top 8 teams in the BCS and stage an eight team playoff using the bowl system and possibly a mixture of home games.

Criticisms: While this system would solve most years where there are multiple undefeated teams or a three way tie at the top, it would still exclude other smaller schools that will never make the top eight like Ball St or Tulsa.  Also (politically speaking) the 8 seed would be large enough that the AQ conferences would try to force their champs into the playoff system even though that would defeat most of the benefits to this system that I listed above.

The Dan Wetzel model (16 team playoff)

Take ALL 11 conference champions and seed the remaining 5 at large spots with the highest remaining teams in the BCS ranking.  Use home games before moving the semi-finals and finals to the bowls.

Criticisms: While this system would solve all current complaints against the BCS it still does deserve some criticism.  A 16 team model is too inclusive; there are not many years where 16 teams deserve a chance to play for a national championship and in many years a few conference champs do not deserve they right to play for a national championship.  The 2010 Sun Belt Champ is a 6-6 FIU, the 2008 MAC Champ was an 8-5 Buffalo and the 2007 & 2006 Sun Belt Champs were Troy and Florida Atlantic who both also had 5 losses, do these schools really deserve a playoff spot with five or six losses?

 Other General Playoff Criticism:

Risk of Injury- This argument is a favorite of the anti-playoff crowd.  These unpaid student athletes can't play that many games without exponentially increasing their risk of injury.....yeah right.  This may have had some merit until these schools and conferences took the 10 game regular season plus a bowl game and expanded the schedule to a 12 game regular season plus a conference championship game and a bowl game.  Did you know that most post season injuries occur due an decease in an athlete's flexibility that can be directly contributed to the down time that occurs between the final week of games and the beginning of bowl practice, Alabama and Texas in 2009 finished their regular seasons on December 5th and could not resume practicing until the 16th, that down time can be dangerous if athletes don't continue to stretch and workout during the break.  So by actually allowing playoff teams to continue to practice, without the large break in-between, it would keep the athletes in better shape and reduce the chance of tears, pulls, and sprains.  I mean Texas high school football teams play 17 games if they make it to the state championships and the NFL plays a 17 game regular season, so why can't colligate athletes play 17 games to determine its champion?  The answer simply is that they can and most would want to if it meant they had a chance to be the national champs.

Less Time for School- This year the regular season runs until December 4th (excluding the Army/Navy game) and the bowl season begins on December 18th and end on January 10th which gives the students plenty of time to finish their studying for the fall semester and end the post-season before spring class begin.  Do you know how many weekends fall between December 18th and January 10th? Four....which is the exact number of rounds it would take to complete a 12 or 16 round playoff.  There is no way that a playoff would interfere with these athletes studies anymore than the bowl system does.  The teams that play in the bowl game on December 18th transition from the regular season to bowl practice without a break for class, if they can do it then why can't the possible national champions?  Compared to other sports like basketball and baseball, football players miss the least amount of school and typically have more time to study than the others due to less mid-week game and fewer away game trips.

Maintaining the Integrity of the Regular Season-

Part 1- A playoff wouldn't reduce the scheduling of great out of conference (OOC) games anymore than it currently does, at the moment one loss can end your national title dreams but with a playoff 1 loss may not be the end of your season and scheduling better OOC game may get you better seeding.  Normally halfway through the regular season we know who are the likely top 6 contenders for the national title, so why watch any other games if that is all we care about?  If there was still a chance that any one loss team or conference champion could make the playoffs, imagine how many more games people would be interested in. 

Part 2-Some people think that once teams have secured their playoff/conference championship bid they would conserve their players in order to prepare for the playoffs.  That concern is valid (see the 2009 NFL Colts), therefore in a good playoff system the top ranked teams should be rewarded for playing a tough schedule and having fewer losses.  So to solve this dilemma a good playoff system should incentivize teams with not just better seeds which give them an easier win, but also home games and bye weeks.  This can make a huge difference competitively to the teams by allowing more rest and home field advantage which is also monetarily beneficial to the schools and communities.

A playoff and the bowl system cannot coexist, or a playoff would kill the bowl system- This is a false choice, obviously they can co-exist, just use a hybrid of the two post season models, take the top teams in the playoff and allow the other bowl eligible teams to fill the bowls.

A playoff would kill all of interest in the bowls because people would only care about the elite teams in the playoffs- I say there already is a difference in national interest between the BCS and non BCS bowls in the current system, so by moving the top teams from the BCS bowls to a playoff would only transfer that interest but not destroy all interest in rest of the bowls. I would even argue that a playoff would add more interest to the post season because certain bowls, like the Rose Bowl and or the Cotton Bowl, will always have national interest regardless of what teams play in them.  People could and would watch both the bowls and the Playoff just like they watch the BCS and non-BCS games now.

A playoff would destroy the mid-major or "little guys' bowls"-umm....yeah it would, by taking the top teams into a playoff system, it would allow other teams to move up to the higher bowls which would tickle down to the mid-majors.  Instead of playing and vacationing in the Boise, Mobile, Detroit, or Albuquerque in December/January they could upgrade to bowls in Texas, California, or Florida.  If we don't establish a playoff system because it would hurt the GoDaddy.com Bowl then this system is extremely more than corrupt we thought.

Now that we've gone through the basics, without further adieu...

The NFL playoff model (12 team playoff)

  • All 11 conference champs who have 2 or less losses receive an automatic spot in the playoffs, so If all champs have 2 losses then there is only 1 at large spot, a conference champ with more than 2 losses may still make the playoff if they qualify for an at large selection.
  • As an exclusionary rule, playing two FCS (D1-AA) teams in one year will count as a loss, so if 2 of a conference champ's wins were against FCS teams they will not receive an automatic bid if they have more than 1 loss, however they may still qualify for at large selection (this rule is similar to the current bowl eligibility rule that only counts one FCS win towards bowl eligibility).
  • The remaining playoff spots are filled with at large teams selected by taking highest teams in the BCS rankings.
  • There is no limit on number of teams from any conference.
  • Seed the playoff by using the BCS rankings, if the team is not ranked (like a 2 loss Buffalo or Troy) use their BCS computer rankings to determine the seeding (in rare situations).
  • The top 4 teams in the BCS ranking will receive 1st week byes
  • 5-12 play each other at the home field of the teams with the highest BCS ranking
    • 12 will play at 5, 11 will play at 6, 10 will play at 7, and 9 will play at 8
  • For the 2nd week, 1-4 will host the winners from the 1st week at their home stadiums
    • 8/9 will play at 1, 7/10 will play at 2, 6/11 will play at 3, and 5/12 will play at 4
  • The semi-finals (week 3) can be played at 2 of the elite the bowl stadiums which would be separate from the bowl games (i.e. the 2011 Fiesta Bowl and the 2011 BCS NCG at Glendale).
  • The National Championship Game (week 4 final) will occur just like it does now.

Why not include all conference champions?  If you think a 6 loss FUI or a 5 loss Buffalo should be in a playoff then you definitely don't get why people think a playoff would ruin the importance of the regular season.

Why a two loss cap why not a three loss cap for the automatic bids?  Well, the BCS has never allowed a three loss team to play for the NCG, it seems only logical to use similar parameters.  While this could be pushed to three losses that would great weaken this system.

Why not count wins instead of losses?  Valid argument, however with conference championship games and the Hawaii 13th game rule this would be harder to standardize.  This may be slightly biased toward conferences without CCGs however they must WIN those games to be considered for an automatic bid so a loss hurts them no matter what I set the cap at.

Why not keep the current 2 teams from one conference rule?  Well, this system would be the most beneficial to the mid-major conferences, so without this rule why would the SEC or Big12 consider changing to this system?  This proposal also solves the dilemma about having more than two legitimate national title contenders with in a conference (i.e. the Texas-Oklahoma-Texas Tech 3 way tie of 2008).

Bye weeks/home game are not fair to the other playoff teams.  True but this an incentive to play a good OOC schedule and try to stay highly ranked throughout the season, and without these incentives a team could just quit once it had been declared a conference champion. 

Examples

Now that I have explained my version of the NFL style playoff, I will put it into practice using the last four years.

2007

Champs with auto bids (8)

ACC-Virginia Tech, Big12-Oklahoma, Big East-West Virginia, Big Ten-Ohio St, MWC-BYU, PAC10-USC, SEC-LSU, and WAC-Hawaii

At larges (4)

Kansas, Arizona St (Co-Champ), Georgia and Mizzou

Notables left out (6)

Big East (Co-Champ)-UConn (3 losses), CUSA-UCF (3 losses), MAC-Central Michigan (5 losses), Sun Belt (Co-Champs)-FAU and Troy (5 and 4 losses), and #12 Florida (3 losses)

This includes the top 11 teams in the BCS plus #17 BYU, #12 Florida wouldn't be happy about this but tough luck Gators.  If one really wanted you could fight for a 3 loss UCF at the expense of #11 Arizona St but I think that is a little farfetched.

2008

Champs with auto bids (7)

Big12-Oklahoma, Big East-Cinncy, Big Ten-Penn St, MWC-Utah, PAC10-USC, SEC-Florida, and WAC-Boise St

At larges (5)

Texas, Alabama, Texas Tech, Ohio St, and TCU

Notables left out (6)

Sun Belt-Troy (3 losses), ACC-Virginia Tech (4 losses), CUSA-ECSU (4 losses), MAC-Buffalo (5 losses), Ball St (1 loss to Buffalo in the MAC CCG), and BYU (2 losses)

This year sucked for Ball St but had they won the MAC CCG they would have been included at the expense of #11 TCU (since #12 Cinncy won the Big East), this year include all top 12 of the BCS ranked team in the playoff, sorry #15 BYU.  Also note the exclusion of the ACC proving this system doesn't care if the conference is "AQ" or not, and this solves the threeway tie in the Big12 South.

2009

Champs with auto bids (9)

ACC-Georgia Tech, Big12-Texas, Big East-Cinncy, Big Ten-Ohio St, MAC-Central Michigan, MWC-TCU, PAC10-Oregon, SEC-Alabama, and WAC-Boise St

At larges (3)

Florida, Iowa, and Virginia Tech

Notables left out (4)

Sun Belt-Troy (3 losses), CUSA-ECSU (4 losses), #12 LSU (3 losses), and BYU (2 losses)

A 3 loss Virginia Tech barley makes the cut, the playoff is the top eleven plus Central Michigan.

2010

Champs with auto bids (7)

ACC-Virginia Tech, Big12-Oklahoma, Big Ten-Wisconsin, MWC-TCU, PAC10-Oregon, SEC-Auburn and WAC-Nevada

At larges (5)

Stanford, Ohio St, Arkansas, Michigan St, and Boise St

Notables left out (11)

Big East(Co-Champs)-UConn/WV/Pitt (4/3/5 losses), CUSA-UCF (3 losses), WAC(Co-Champ)-Hawaii (3 losses), MAC-Miami OH (4 losses), Sun Belt-FIU/Troy (6/5 losses), #11 LSU, #12 Mizzou, and Northern Illinois who would have made it had they won the MWC CCG at the expense of Boise St.

If this was to happen this year it would work out like this...

First Round 1-4 get byes (Auburn, Oregon, TCU, and Stanford)

These "wild card" games are played at 5-8's home stadiums

5. Wisconsin v 12. Nevada @ Madison  6. Ohio St v 11. Virginia Tech @ Columbus

7. Arkansas v 10. Boise St @ Fayetteville  8. Oklahoma v 9. Michigan St @ Norman

Next round at 1-4's home stadiums

1.  Auburn v 8/9 OU/Mich St @ Auburn  2.  Oregon v 7/10 Ark/BSU @ Eugene

3. TCU v 6/11 tOSU/VT @ Fort Worth  4. Stanford v 5/12UWM/UNR @ Stanford

Semi-Finals can be played at the bowls that rotate

1/8/9 v 4/5/12 at Fiesta or Orange

2/7/10 v 3/6/11 at Sugar or Cotton

Finals can also rotate for now lets just say it was played at the Rose Bowl...

Well that's it, if I have convinced you that this is the best playoff system then great if not then I am a failure....

In all seriousness though, if we ever get to the point where we are debating which type of playoff is best then we have already won war....

Poll
Which playoff model do you prefer?
The Current BCS (2 teams)
0 votes
The Plus One Model (4 teams)
1 votes
The Straight 8 Model (8 teams)
9 votes
The NFL Style (12 teams)
34 votes
The Wetzel Plan (16 teams)
38 votes
No playoffs, disband the BCS and just vote after the bowl game
4 votes

86 votes | Poll has closed

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More from Mountain West Connection

Lets have a Playoff

Dec 2007 by Jeremy Mauss - 0 comments

Comments

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16 Team Playoff

The only way I can rationalize a playoff is with EVERY conference champ in and then from there bring in the next highest rated schools to fill up the other slots.

It was all just a dream...

by MasinMud on Dec 14, 2010 2:05 AM PST reply actions  

That is what most non-AQ schools want...

However my arguement, like many of the playoff detractors, is that the inclusion of a six loss Florida International or a five loss Buffalo would detract from the value of the regular season.

If you disagree that is fine however instead of just saying “I disagree and my way is better” please back it up and say WHY your way is better and highlight an example if you can. Concrete examples are always better than theory, remember not many people wanted a playoff until they saw a concrete example of a team getting screwed (Auburn).

by TowerPower on Dec 14, 2010 7:48 AM PST up reply actions  

And my counter-argument

Is that they got their playoff spot by winning their conference in the regular season. And I’d prefer that every team (well, except for the handful of independents) to be able to get into the playoffs regardless of what any ranking system thinks of them, and without arguing the merits of schedule strength (it’s not like two losses in the post-2012 WAC and two losses in the Pac 12 are in any way the same).

And also that the combination of a bye and home-field advantage is horrible in football playoffs; it gives the higher seed a tremendous advantage.

by drothgery on Dec 14, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

You would rather have 6 loss FIU over say a 2 loss LSU?

How is that fair to LSU who only lost Arkansas and Auburn while FIU lost to FAU, MTSU, texas A&M, Rutgers, Maryland, and Pitt…

While I get why most people around here like the all inclusive model since the MWC has been fighting for the little guys for so long you can’t honestly tell me that people would watch the playoff more if FIU was in it compared to LSU. Winning the Sun Belt is great for that schools however nationaly does it matter? If we are basing a system that worries about 5 and 6 loss team then you are weaking the importance of the regular season AND the playoff in general.

You made my pont for me about the 2 loss formula,

(it’s not like two losses in the post-2012 WAC and two losses in the Pac 12 are in any way the same).

So why award a conference champs with more than 3 losses just because their conference sucked that year, teams from the WAC/MAC/and Sun Belt would have to choose whether to play big name OOC games for the payday or lower their SOS to avoid having more than 2 losses and make the playoff.

The selection has nothing to do with the rankings (like Wetzel’s model) those only are used to fill in the at large spots.

The bi-week and home games are VERY important because if you don’t have an incentive to do well whats to stop teams frolm resting starters after they have secured their conference championship, and what is the incentive to win OOC games if they don’t mean anything other than seeding?

by TowerPower on Dec 14, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

  • Seeding is a huge deal in Wetzel-style football playoffs. Dropping out of the top 4 costs home field in the semis, dropping out of the top 8 costs home field in the first round, and dropping out of the top 3 or 4 changes things from a near-certain win to a very competitive opponent.
  • The college football season is too short for teams to have much opportunity to rest starters, and with major traditional rivalries usually played in the final week of the regular season, starters will not be rested anyway (no Ohio State coach could keep his job after resting his starters and losing to Michigan — even if he beat them in a Big Ten championship game rematch the next week). Besides, 6 of 11 conferences have championship games as of next year, and it seems very likely that will increase to 8 or 9 in the not too distant future (with the Big East and MWC almost certainly looking at further expansion, and though the Big 12 isn’t looking now, it’s not unlikely things will change there).
  • I still don’t get how a 5-loss team winning the Sun Belt weakens the importance of the regular season. In the regular season, that 5-loss team had the best conference record in the Sun Belt. It might well be true that the last-place team in every AQ conference could win the Sun Belt (since Rutgers did beat FIU, I think this is a safe bet), but if we’re not going to kick most of the non-AQ schools out of FBS, then winning the Sun Belt is winning an FBS conference and hence deserves a playoff spot. If a traditional power finds this offensive, they can join a weaker conference, get far less TV money, and win it easily if they want (for a while, until recruits stop going there because they don’t play anybody good).

by drothgery on Dec 14, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

the biggest reason I disagree

is that if there is to be a playoff implemented then it has to be able to be supported by the current system backers. Those in power now have to in some way be compensated for anything to happen, because they would just tirelessly attempt to block anything like this happening because it hurts their schools too much (given the status quo). Your ideas work, but dont expect anyone in the current system to back them.

If we go with a system that includes the schools that the majority think are better than the conference champs, its a compromise, and in my mind the only chance a playoff has is if there is some sort of compromise with the current system.

I’m pretty hesitant to do the auto-bid for winning your conference thing Wetzel proposes, simply because some of these teams just flat out dont deserve to be in the playoffs if they barely won a bad conference. If theres any chance on the new playoffs being cheapened, you’ll have uproar from the current AQ conferences, and they’d have a good argument too.

again, not saying youre wrong. Just that theres no way, in my opinion at least, that an auto-bid conference champs type system will ever get put into place. There’d be way too much opposition to it.

by pack_fan on Dec 14, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree seeding is huge, however I mostly like the 12 teams format with the bye weeks that is my preference just like having 16 teams and no bye weeks is yours. I feel that teams like the 2005 Texas and USC or 2010 Auburn, Oregon, TCU should be rewarded even more than just an extra home game for playing a truly tough season.

I would disagree that team wouldn’t rest players, many schools schedule an OOC game late in the season, if their is no penalty for losing these games i.e. Auburn who played Chattanooga on 11/6 or Texas who played FAU 11/20.

If you don’t get why a 5 lose Buffalo or 6 loss FIU wouldn’t make a mockery of the playoff then you obviously don’t understand why people are upset about UConn getting a BCS bid because they are the best team of a weak conference or the NFC West getting a playoff spot this year. If you don’t get its fine but trust me it doesn’t help your argument.

by TowerPower on Dec 14, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

You're saying they didn't rest players for those games?

Seriously? Auburn vs. an FCS team or Texas vs. a Sun Belt team?

Auburn had the SEC West locked up, but still had two games left that at the time it looked like they could easily lose (vs. Alabama and the SEC Championship Game vs. South Carolina). If they lost both and dropped an OOC game vs. a cupcake, they would not have made the playoffs. Heck, they might very well have lost their playoff spot just by losing to a cupcake and failing to win the SEC; pollsters are not very forgiving of that sort of thing, and neither are selection committees.

The reason why I’m upset about UConn getting a BCS bid is because it was caused by Syracuse not beating them and getting a BCS bid instead (well,depending on the final BCS rankings; the pollsters seemed to like us more than WVU when we had the same Big East record, but the loss to BC might have given the BCS bid to the ’eers, who probably deserved it, fluky losses to us and UConn notwithstanding). Are they undeserving? No more so than any of the other low-ranked AQ conference champions that have gone to the BCS before (or some of the more questionable at-large selections, even; there were a few teams that may have had a top-14 final BCS ranking, but were not very good).

by drothgery on Dec 14, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

But even you can see...

why most of us have problems with teams with 3 or more losses getting an automatic bid to a BCS game simply because they won their crappy conference in any given year, but you don’t have a problem with that as long as every conference gets an automatic bid no matter how crappy the conferences and its winners are? I just wanted to give every conference a CHANCE which is what most people want, guaranteed automatic bids goes too far in my opinion.

I don’t mean to sound like a jerk I honestly am just trying to wrap my head around your argument, maybe I’m just dumb (and I did just finish finals so it is a real possibility at the moment) but I’m not getting why UConn is wrong but a six loss FAU is okay as long as UConn also gets a bid?

And in those game listed above they played the starters until it got out of reach…
Garrett Gilbert had 260 yards 2 TDs passing and 60 yards 1 TD rushing
Cam Newton had 317 yards 4 TDs passing and 24 yards 1 TD rushing
Doesn’t sound like they has much of a rest….

by TowerPower on Dec 14, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

UConn isn't wrong

I’m upset about UConn getting the Big East’s BCS bid because I’m a Syracuse fan, and if the Orange had made slightly fewer mistakes in the comedy of errors that was the SU-UConn game, the Orange might have had it. But that’s just an emotional argument. Rationally speaking, I’ve got nothing against UConn.

I don’t see what’s so cosmically unjust about a 3 or 4 loss playoff team (or even a 5 loss playoff team). If conference titles mean anything, then winning one ought to be worth a playoff spot. Moreover, the lack of an arbitrary cut-off like your two-loss rule would encourage good teams to play more demanding non-conference schedules (which I think all fans want), because if they win it improves their at-large profile and if they lose they can still win their conference. I’d rather have good teams taking more risks in their schedules.

by drothgery on Dec 14, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

My thoughts

I do think that having automatic bids to the playoffs would hurt. Not because it would degrade the quality of the playoff, but because it would allow the best teams in the Sun Belt and MAC to schedule four cash games (a game against a highly popular opponent of which you know you will not win but play anyway in order to receive a big payday) per year and then win their conference and go to a playoff.

If those teams are willing to schedule the cash games, then the favorites in the BCS conferences (Oregon, WVU, Va Tech) would be willing to schedule the easy games to make sure that they are at least 10-2 when they win the conference. That would be considered diluting the regular season and the people in charge (Bill Hancock, Jim Delaney and Co.) would shut it down in an instant.

Instead, if a 3 loss rule were implemented into a 16 team playoff, you wouldn’t see the Ohio State-Eastern Michigan games any more, instead you would see more matchups of BCS vs. BCS and MAC, Sun Belt and C-USA teams all scheduling eachother in order to ensure winnable games against semi-respectable opponents.

This system would allow say a 2 loss LSU team or 1 loss BSU/Nevada to make the playoffs where they wouldn’t have in an NFL style playoff and not dilute the regular season since teams from the lower FBS conferences now need wins, not cash games.

Mountain West Connection - All you need to know about the Mountain West and then some.
Stampede Blue - An Indianapolis Colts blog.
Bright Side of the Sun - Dedicated to Phoenix Suns basketball since 2006.

UNLV is going undefeated this year!
The Colts are going 13-6this year!
The Suns are going to be 75-7 in the regular season this year!

;)

Twitter: @rebelfan1_

by rebelfan1 on Dec 15, 2010 5:31 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I think we're on the same page...

our differences seem to boil down to preferrance, I prefer a 12 team playoff with two loss cap and bye weeks while you prefer a 16 team playoff with a three loss cap and no bye weeks.

If either of these happen I will be elated.

by TowerPower on Dec 15, 2010 8:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Reason for my thought

The sole reason for my vote was it gave every conference champ a shot at winning the championship and 5 wild cards.

I could care less if a five loss Buffalo made it if they were the champion of their conference. At least then every confernce champion a chance at the main prize, what EVERY team wants at beginning of the season. The other 5 wild cards I am fine with fill ins from higher rated teams that didnt win their conference.

Seeding though I have no preference. Bye weeks, no preference.

It was all just a dream...

by MasinMud on Dec 14, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Every team has a chance...

and every conference too…

All one has to do is lose 2 or less games and win their conference…how is that unfair to those teams?

And what is to stop a team like Boise St from joining the Sun Belt for example to get an automatic bid every year.

Like I said above while we all want it to be fair allowing a 5 or 6 loss teams a slot in a playoff is most unfair to the AQ conference members like LSU this year…

All that being said I understand why some people want a 16 team playoff with all conference champs however I have yet to hear one logical/solid argument WHY its better than the NFL style one other than simply bias/preference.

For example one such argument is that the 2 loss cap is biased towards schools with the most profitable athletic budget since they can afford to pay smaller schools to come play them as a guaranteed win while smaller schools (in order to keep their athletic programs in the black) have to schedule the larger schools that would be willing to pay them. But I would argue that its not fair for the smaller schools take the pay day and still get an easier path than the larger schools to the playoff.

If you have another logical argument similar to that I would love to hear them, I’m not knocking these previous comments but just pointing out that we could debate bias/preference all day.

by TowerPower on Dec 14, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I like a 16 team playoff

But not the way Wetzel has it. The only thing I would change is have the rule put in about having only two-loss conference champions having automatic bids. That way we get the best competition (in most years a 13 would beat a 12, 14 beat 11) without giving a tremendous advantage to the higher seed (as drothgery pointed out) by handing them a bye week.

Mountain West Connection - All you need to know about the Mountain West and then some.
Stampede Blue - An Indianapolis Colts blog.
Bright Side of the Sun - Dedicated to Phoenix Suns basketball since 2006.

UNLV is going undefeated this year!
The Colts are going 13-6this year!
The Suns are going to be 75-7 in the regular season this year!

;)

Twitter: @rebelfan1_

by rebelfan1 on Dec 14, 2010 10:25 AM PST reply actions  

Interesting...

So this year you would take…

Champs with auto bids (7)

ACC-Virginia Tech, Big12-Oklahoma, Big Ten-Wisconsin, MWC-TCU, PAC10-Oregon, SEC-Auburn and WAC-Nevada

At larges (9)

Stanford, Ohio St, Arkansas, Michigan St, Boise St, LSU, Missouri, Oklahoma St, and Alabama

I like this way better than Wetzel’s but still I find it a tad bit too inclusive with 3 teams from the SEC, Big Ten, and Big12, think think the Big Ten is fine but the others seem too inclusive. If I was to design this model I would raise the cap to 3 losses and add UCF and West Virginia (since they were Big East Co-Champs) and drop Okie St and Bama.

Thanks for the ideas rebelfan1

by TowerPower on Dec 14, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I like everything except for the 2nd round of that playoff format........

Lets say for instance that something wacky happens and the 12 seed wins…….the 4 seed would in essence be getting a break playing the worst seeded team, while the number 1 seed has to theorically play a tougher team.

I would make it so the one seed plays the lowest remaning seed…..then the 2 seed plays the next 3 the next etc…….

I think they should “reseed” after each round anyways…….but thats just my opinion.

Otherwise what is the benefit of being the number 1 seed in a 12 team format exactly?

The score dictated they pass

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2010 12:29 AM PST reply actions  

all fine points...

it could be reseeded but I doubt coaches would want that since they would like to know who they may be playing ahead of time to prepare a game plan and watch film of those teams, look at Wetzel’s plan, its seeded very similar with #1 playing 8/9 because it most likely that these will be the easiest matchup for the #1 seed. I’m not saying its perfect but it is the standard tournament structure.

by TowerPower on Dec 15, 2010 7:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Depends on the tournament

NBA & NCAA BB have a preset field

NFL & NHL reseed

by torch on Dec 16, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

playoffs

I like the idea of All conference champs being in….BUT there has to be limit. Say they have to be ranked a certain level.

Also…there is the question of determining Conf. Champs. With the Big Least and the Big 12-lite not having a Conf. Championship game, and the others having, there is an unequal determination.

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by Redhawk on Dec 15, 2010 9:08 AM PST reply actions  

For you 16-team advocates

I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again: in order to include bottom-feeder crap like FIU, and to justify it on grounds that the basketball tournament does it, the football tournament would have to include at least 24 teams, which should never happen.

Some simple math for y’all:

68 Division 1 basketball tournament bids / 346 Division 1 basketball teams = 19.65%

16 FBS football tournament bids / 120 Division 1 football teams = 13.33% [13.00% including USA, UTSA, and TSU]

24 FBS football tournament bids / 120 Division 1 football teams = 20.00% [19.51% including USA, UTSA, and TSU]

Not every league plays in the FCS playoffs, and not every league should play in the FBS playoffs either.

by VA Libertarian on Dec 20, 2010 10:49 AM PST reply actions  

I think its crazy to allow a four or more loss team in the playoffs...

Comparing it to basketball is also dispportional based on the amount of games played too. A four loss team would have a 67% win record which is a D or a six loss team like FIU at .500 is an F.

VA- What do you think about this plan, was this similar to your 12 team playoff plan? Based off of your comment it sounds like you wanted to designate automatic qualification conferences (with the Big Six plus MWC and CUSA I’m guessing) like D1-AA does…

and

What do you think about a 16 team playoff like this but with a 3 loss cap for conference champs like rebelfan1 and I discussed a few comments above?

by TowerPower on Dec 20, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Not every league plays in the FCS playoffs

Because some FCS conferences do not offer football scholarships, and beyond that two conferences don’t participate in the football postseason for bizarre reasons (they say its for academic reasons, but participate in the basketball tournament, where players would lose more class time if they actually won a game or two, and the Ivy champ sometimes does).

And what’s wrong with a 24-team playoff, other than it pretty much requiring a return to 11 regular season games (which was normal less than a decade ago)?

by drothgery on Dec 20, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't agree with this but...

the Ivy League says the post season and the practice for it conflicts with fall finals which is why they participate in the NCAA basketball post season but not football. The SWAC abstains because the 1st round of the tournament conflicts with the Bayou Classic.

Neither abstain for scholarship reasons, after 2012 only the FCS independent (if there are any) and the Pioneer League will not have an automatic bid however they may still receive an invitation as an at large team.

by TowerPower on Dec 21, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

A 24 team playoff may not be all that bad

Just add the extra week in for this year on December 11th. Under a four week playoff the playoffs would have started on December 18th.

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by rebelfan1 on Dec 20, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I think thats too many

that starts to fringe on making the regular season less important IMO

by pack_fan on Dec 22, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  


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