Wagons East: My thoughts on TCU's impending move to the Big East Conference
The rumor that has lingered in the air for months like a stale fart at a dinner party is now no longer a rumor, TCU will officially join the Big East in all sports on July 1st, 2012. As TCU's Athletic Director, Chris Del Conte, stated in today's press conference this is a move that has pros as well as cons, but when added up the pros win by a landslide. It's a shame that we have to leave the MWC because it has been a great conference home for the Frogs on almost every level. However with the recent and unexpected departures of BYU and Utah in the past months this is not the conference we signed up for when we joined in 2005, and although the additions of Boise, Nevada, Fresno State, and Hawaii are all well and good they just don't carry the same cachet as Utah and BYU, with whom we'd formed some pretty healthy rivalries.
I hope there are no hard feelings regarding our departure, but if there are may I be quick to remind you that the original 8 founding members of the MWC deserted the Frogs in 1999 when we were all together in the WAC, so turnabout is fair play and it's nothing personal, just business. Make no mistake our departure is not just about losing BYU and Utah, it is about what the Big East can give the Frogs that the MWC won't be able to, a BCS AQ bid and substantially increased revenues and exposure. This move is one that has many layers, so follow along as I explore all the different aspects to this impending move for the Frogs.
AQ Bid
Getting an automatic BCS bid has been our search for the holy grail the past 5 years, and the MWC appeared to be within striking distance this summer as many people assumed that the addition of Boise State would be enough to get us there, and then the dominos started to fall. Texas A&M threw a massive wrench in the Pac 10's conquest into Texas and Oklahoma, and after that failed the Pac10 went back to the drawing board and quickly scooped up Colorado and Utah. That caused BYU to get butthurt and jealous of arch-rival Utah and they took their ball and went home, and that's how we got to where we are today. So basically this is all A&M's fault, stupid Aggies.
The importance of the AQ bid cannot be understated. Being able to lose a game or two and still be in the hunt for a big-time BCS bowl game is quite a luxury, especially with a future non-conference slate that will include the likes of Oklahoma, LSU, and Arkansas. Going undefeated is no easy feat in college football today, I don't care if you do play in the Big 12, Big East, SEC, or you play the Little Sisters of the Poor, it adds incredible pressure (just ask Boise State) that is unhealthy for a student athlete. Now TCU can play without that pressure because losing a game will not necessarily mean the season is over and the sky is falling, the sun will come up and the goal will still be to win the Big East and get to a BCS game.
Bowl Affiliations
Additionally the Big East has bowl tie-ins that are far superior to the MWC's in every way imaginable; better opponents, locations, scheduled dates, and most importantly payouts. Here is what each conference's bowl situation looks like this year:
Mountain West Conference
#1 Maaco Las Vegas Bowl, December 22nd vs. Pac 10 #5. Payout: $1,000,000
#2 Poinsettia Bowl in San Diego, CA vs. Navy or WAC. Payout: $750,000
#3 Independence Bowl in Shreveport, LA, December 27th vs. ACC #7. Payout: $1,100,000
#4/5 New Mexico Bowl in Albuqurque, NM, December 18th vs. WAC. Payout: $750,000
#4/5 Armed Forces Bowl in Dallas, TX, December 30th vs. C-USA #3. Payout: $750,000
Big East Conference
#1 BCS Bowl (Sugar, Rose, Fiesta, Orange) in Miami, New Orleans, Pasadena, or Tempe, January 1st-4th vs. BCS. Payout: $17,000,000
#2 Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando, Fl, December 28th vs. ACC #3. Payout: $2,130,000
#3 Meineke Car Care Bowl in Charlotte, NC, December 31st vs ACC #5. Payout: $1,600,000
#4 Pinstripe Bowl in Bronx, NY, December 30th vs. Big 12 #7. Payout: $2,000,000
#5a Compass Bowl in Birmingham AL, January 8th vs. SEC #8. Payout: $900,000
#5b* Liberty Bowl in Memphis, TN, December 31st vs. C-USA #1 or SEC #8/9. Payout: $1,700,000
#6 Beef O' Brady's Bowl in St. Petersburg, FL, December 21st vs. C-USA #4. Payout: $1,000,000
*provisional spot
Television Exposure & Revenue
In 2012 TCU will earn roughly 4-5 times the amount of television revenue than it could in the MWC and possibly much more than that when the contract is renegotiated for 2013. This money will be quite a boon for TCU's athletic development as TCU is a private university that does not receive public funding like a University of Texas does, so the extra athletic revenue will help to further improve the athletic department and facilities.
The extra money is nice but it will be even better to be back on ESPN again and get some heavy east coast exposure. ESPN is great not only because of the amount of eyes on the games but also the amount of love and publicity ESPN will throw your way as they shamelessly promote those games. Boise State got a good taste of that love this year and conversely TCU felt the cold shoulder that you get when you're not an ESPN product, which was especially evident last night on the BCS Countdown Show.
The only con to being back on ESPN again is that we are going to be playing lots of weeknight games which hurts attendance and can anger area high school coaches (in Texas Fridays are for HS football) but thats just something we'll have to deal with.
Attendance
Big-time players want to play in front of big-time crowds, and when comparing the 2009 attendance averages of the Big East and MWC(below) it is safe to say that the Big East is a marked improvement. Though the Big East fans probably won't travel that well to Fort Worth they can't do any worse than the MWC fans did. Also TCU's home attendance should be aided by the name brand recognition of the Big East teams. Which team would you rather go see TCU play at Amon Carter Stadium, Rutgers or New Mexico? Both are last in their respective conferences, but I think it's a no brainer that Rutgers would be a bigger draw. Also TCU should be able look forward to a home and home series with Notre Dame due to their non-football arrangement with the Big East.
2009 Average Home Game Attendance:
(new) MWC
1. Hawaii - 36,725
2. Air Force – 35,6565
3. Fresno- 33,578
4. Boise State- 32,782
5. New Mexico – 26,9446
6. San Diego State – 24,4647
7. Colorado State – 23,6438
8. UNLV – 22,7759
9. Wyoming – 19,494
10. Nevada- 17,500
Big East:
1. West Virginia 57,317
2. Pittsburgh 53,446 40
3. South Florida 52,553
4. Rutgers 49,113
5. Syracuse 39,043
6. Connecticut 38,229
7. Cincinnati 33,957
8. Louisville 32,450
Visiting Destinations
In my humble opinion this is one of the biggest cons to leaving the MWC for the Big East. I would much rather visit all of the MWC's majestic locales than the rust belt crapholes of the Big East. While New York and Tampa could make for a fun trip give me Lake Tahoe, Las Vegas, Hawaii, San Diego, and Fort Collins any day.
Travel Expenses
The initial negative reaction that most people have when they hear that TCU is heading to the Big East is that it does not make geographic sense and that the travel expenses for the non-revenue sports will be unbearable. In fact the travel is only about 100 miles more on average and the Big East has schools in less remote locations than the MWC and has more major airports so it's not that big of an issue. Also we learned today that due to some Big East rules the travel costs for TCU will actually be less imposing in the Big East than the MWC:
On travel issues: Marinatto said it's only an issue for non-football sports, and the travel isn't as bad as it seems. The Big East does not require that individual-based sports -- like track, swimming and diving, cross country, tennis and golf -- play other league schools in the regular season. They can play local opponents or go to meets and then advance to the Big East postseason tournament. The Mountain West did have that requirement, so TCU actually has to pay more in travel expenses for those teams in the MWC than it will in the Big East.
The only sports that will be affected, then, are team sports such as men's and women's basketball, soccer, baseball and volleyball.
"It's not as much of a geographic stretch as you might think," he said.
Recruiting
For the past ten years schools have negatively recruited against TCU by using the non-AQ angle, but not anymore now that we have a place at the table. Additionally the factors I listed above(better bowls, ESPN, bigger crowds) will all play a major factor and make a massive difference in a TCU recruiting effort that is already improving leaps and bounds every year. In the coming years you will probably see alot more 4-star athletes considering TCU than ever before. It also moves our recruiting footprint east and should allow us to focus more on states like Florida (where we've already had some success) although Texas will always be TCU's recruiting base since it is so fertile.
Basketball
This move will have the most dramatic affect on our struggling basketball program. The Big East is arguably the best basketball conference in the nation which will cause TCU to flounder initially but with time and support the program could grow into a respectable one. TCU has a fertile recruiting base in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex and TCU will be in a unique position to pitch to recruits that they can play in the best basketball conference in the nation and do it from their own backyard, that's just crazy enough to work.
In addition to improving recruiting TCU will also need to improve their basketball arena, Daniel-Meyer Coliseum. This shouldn't be too hard to accomplish with the increased revenues from the Big East and inevitable fan and donor enthusiasm that will build once teams like Syracuse and Georgetown start visiting Fort Worth. Make no mistake this will be a long road and it won't happen overnight, but TCU's basketball team could be Big East worthy in 5-10 years.
Conference Instability
With the ever changing conference landscape it is more than likely that another round of conference expansion could wipe out the Big East if the Big 10 or ACC came calling for Pitt, WVU, or Syracuse, but quite frankly that is a risk that we have to take. We have to improve our situation in the present so that if something happens in the future we will be in the best position possible to land on our feet. Also it's not like the MWC is stable either or that any of the other AQ conferences will take us in so we just need to go for it, repercussions be damned.
Keeping Patterson
This finally gives Patterson one of the things that he desired but TCU wasn't going to be able to deliver before today, a BCS auto-bid, which makes me think he will be in purple for quite some time. Patterson is a unique fellow and is not a ladder climbing a**hole like Brian Kelly or Bobby Petrino, he is a visionary and transcendent leader that has not only built up our football team but the entire program. Patterson is entrenched here, he helped raise the funds for the new stadium and without him there would be no Big East offer to speak of. I truly believe that he wants to see this through all the way and reach his goal of winning a national championship at TCU, and when he does, he'll want to do it again. Patterson is already well paid (2.5 million) and with this news he and his staff are due for another pay bump which should keep him from picking up the phone when the suitors come wooing. Why would he want to leave for another job where the expectations will be so high that he could be on the hotseat within 2-3 years if the ball doesn't bounce his way in a few games. Patterson will be welcome at TCU for life, win or lose. When it's all said and done Gary Patterson will be to TCU what Joe Paterno is to Penn State and Bobby Bowden was to FSU.
Bottom Line
It's a great time to be a Frog fan. Last week we were down in the dumps and coming to terms with the fact that we could go 12-0 and end up in the Las Vegas bowl, and this week we are packing our bags for the Rose bowl, are in the on-deck circle for the title game, and now are headed for an AQ conference. The future is bright for the Froggies.
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pfft
in the words of Christian Bale ‘Ohh GOOD for you’ TCU
Garrett those socks make you look homeless!
by Chris S Roberts on Nov 29, 2010 6:36 PM PST reply actions
And whats the status on Hawaii?
Garrett those socks make you look homeless!
by Chris S Roberts on Nov 29, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
Hawaii is a done deal
There has already been a press conference.
Mountain West Connection - All you need to know about the Mountain West and then some.
Stampede Blue - An Indianapolis Colts blog.
Bright Side of the Sun - Dedicated to Phoenix Suns basketball since 2006.
UNLV is going 4-9 this year!
The Colts are going 15-4 this year!
The Suns are going to be 75-7 in the regular season this year!
;)
Twitter: @rebelfan1_
Not offical yet still working out the deal....
press conference was to say that they have an agreement to join however there is still a small possibility that it may not fall through.
Kind of like the rumors
That UCLA was going to deny Utah coming to the Pac-12 and they’d have to go back to the Mountain West… I don’t see the deal with Hawaii falling through unless the MWC no longer sees a need for them, which is entirely possible.
Mountain West Connection - All you need to know about the Mountain West and then some.
Stampede Blue - An Indianapolis Colts blog.
Bright Side of the Sun - Dedicated to Phoenix Suns basketball since 2006.
UNLV is going 4-9 this year!
The Colts are going 15-4 this year!
The Suns are going to be 75-7 in the regular season this year!
;)
Twitter: @rebelfan1_
I thought it was Stanford....
Yes I get what your saying, but with TCU jumping to the Big East the MWC may decide to invade Texas and take UTEP SMU and Houston instead of allowing Hawaii as a football only member. Until something is in writing its not ‘offical’. But yes I fully expect to see them join in 2012 with Fresno St and Nevada.
It all makes sense you putting it that way.
But just don’t wear those cowboy hats and boots back there or you’ll get laughed at. Being in the big time, you will not want to wear them anyway, so you can fit right in with those eastern dudes. And you will fit in, I think, at least once you explain to them that there really is such a thing as a horned toad.
Fit In with the Eastern Dudes?
Gimme a break! We’ll wear the damned boots and hats (I’ll have to go buy a hat) just so we don’t look like them.
Fear the Frog!
Gratz to TCU, you deserve to be in an AQ conference.
I just feel bad for the teams left in the conference and those coming in who thought they were getting a better deal than they’re ending up with. Good luck to the MWC, I hope you some how still end up with an AQ bid. Whether this cycle or in the future.
Best of Luck to ya TCU
So basically this is all A&M’s fault, stupid Aggies.
That line is priceless.
Thank you for this well thought out post (I wish someone would do one for BYU’s desicion). While most of us already knew most the pros and cons you laid this out very well and I can easily see why this was a no brainer.
I still hope the Big East gets raided by the BigTen/ACC and TCU comes back to the MWC, but until then best of luck kicking around the laughing stock of the AQ’s…jk.
Now for the big question…will TCU get its own SB Nation blog? AND will you continue to write of the MWC blog after July 2012?
on the sec blog "team speed kills" they think this move is temporary and that tcu will get an invite to ......
the sec when we goto super conferences. it could be a&m’s fault again. lol. tcu has been willing to change conferences alot.
Why do canadians stick together? The same reason why Chris Horodecki turned his body and face around in his first WEC fight.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 29, 2010 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
Another off season of conference alignment rumors...
This is going to get crazy quickly.
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
we are both utah fans and i like that we are going to the pac-12 but i really hope things work out for boise state too. they deserve it.
Why do canadians stick together? The same reason why Chris Horodecki turned his body and face around in his first WEC fight.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 29, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
I love me some SEC, but
TeamSpeedKills almost never knows what it’s talking about.
by VA Libertarian on Nov 29, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah SEC wants no part of TCU...
…they’d get exposed as bad as the Big East…
Congrats TCU hope to see you in some BCS games (though I give you better odds of dominating the Big East)
Eros, Ares, Apollo, Zeus, DIONYSUS, Priapus
"Bring on the Nublies": -- _The Stranglers_
Rice-Eccles - Site of the 1st Pac-12 CCG Go UTES!!!
by Ravenous Ute on Nov 29, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
Riiiiiiight
Or they don’t want them because they don’t think they bring much to the table. Especially compared to the other options. The average attendance for SEC games is over 70,000 people. TCU’s stadium holds barely more than half that. And A&M actually brings all the Texas intangibles they could need (plus more).
by VA Libertarian on Nov 29, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
agreed
A&M basically is an SEC school, it just hasn’t happened yet
"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator
by Ben Findley on Nov 29, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
If I could bet on this
I would bet that if the SEC expands, it would first look to A&M and Virginia Tech. After that, it would go for North Carolina, likely be rejected (UNC is not apt to leave Duke, N.C. State, and UVA behind), and settle for Florida State and Clemson. FSU and Clemson aren’t ideal because they don’t bring in more tv sets, but they are very SEC-like in their devotion to football. The last two may be unnecessary, however, as there’s no real reason to go to 16 teams. I bet the SEC would stop at 14.
by VA Libertarian on Nov 29, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'd love to start a TCU blog on SB Nation
I’ll have to look into it. And no I will be gone by then, but I will come and visit. ;)
"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator
by Ben Findley on Nov 29, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Can we find a dedicated basketball guy, though?
by HawkeyedFrog on Nov 30, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
I hate that it has to be like this.
I hate abandoning schools with whom I’ve grown to respect. I hate that the victories we’ve shared together will no longer have the same relevance. I hate that what is best for my school will hurt those who don’t deserve hurting, especially Boise St, who has taken more undeserved nasty comments in the last three days than any BCS school. (This goes on the assumption that Notre Dame deserves every nasty thing ever uttered about it.)
But I also hate that since 1994, TCU has been cast adrift by our instate partners since 1921. I hate that TCU’s administration in the 60’s and 70’s let the athletic program fall into such disrepair and that boosters tried to rebuild through cheating. I hate that we have put in over a decade of hard work and achievement and yet are viewed as less worthy than schools that accept their extravagant conference funds without even trying to field a competitive team.
I hope one day this will all be worth it, but as I have watched tradition after tradition be compromised in the name of profits and “progress”, I don’t feel joy or accomplishment. Someday, I hope all of us will be accepted as equal programs in Division 1, where we each will have an equal chance in that special season when everything comes together and your team goes undefeated and is given a chance to prove it on the field and not by means of your demographics or your history.
Let me add a few more hates
I hate it that Baylor is in the Big XII. I hate it that TCU won’t be in the new Big XII. I hate it that TCU is joining the Big East instead. I hate the Big East. I hate it that the BCS system is driving much of this musical chairs. I hate it that we’ve moved from an imperfect yet oddly-satisfying post-season system to one that teaches that you have to be perfect in a sport where perfection is both rare and overrated. I’m not really in favor of an actual playoff, but it would be better than being in between two stools like we are now, and may have kept the recent conference-jumping to a minimum.
by Mirabeau Lamar on Nov 30, 2010 4:23 AM PST up reply actions
A couple minor points on this post
1. Calling Big East cities “rust belt crapholes” is a little off-base. Maybe Syracuse or Morgantown, but other than that only 1 other city is considered to be in the rust belt, and that’s Pittsburgh – which is far from a craphole (it was actually recently ranked as the most livable city in America). And Morgantown’s actually a pretty cool place (I’ve never been to Syracuse, so I can’t comment on that). Still, I definitely agree that the MWC has way better places to visit.
2. I think some of your bowl payout data for Big East bowls is outdated, but I’m not sure off-hand, and I don’t feel like researching it. A lot of payouts went up this year, or are scheduled to go up next year (which makes some faulty orderings look way out of whack in terms of payout).
3. I doubt the recruiting footprint moves into Florida much. And if it does, it won’t be because USF is there, it’d be because TCU would be more of a ‘national’ program. People way over-hype the recruiting geography bit without considering how awful most C-USA and Sun Belt teams are.
4. I’m glad you included attendance. I’ve been harping on that for quite a while.
5. Overall, great job!
by VA Libertarian on Nov 29, 2010 10:18 PM PST reply actions
My response
1. I know, I was just looking to oversimplify my point while possibly getting a rise out of the Big East folk, call it the Colin Cowherd approach. I am actually a Steelers fan with lots of fam from Pittsburgh and it is really nice out there.
2. I linked where I got that info from, but please let me know where I can find more accurate data if you get a chance to, I know you are the bowl zar
3. I guess I over simplified on the Florida footprint thing, here’s what I meant: Right now TCU has one coach that recruits every state not in Texas, and we seems to have the most out of state luck(couple of kids) in Louisiana and Florida (last year we got a 4-star rb from florida, Ethan Grant). Just trying to say that with this move recruting out of state gets a little easier because we are more relevant towards the East because we will be playing in their timezone and on their TV’s, and will play in a conference these kids are familiar with that may play games near their hometowns.
4. yeah something about those number really speaks volumes about the argument.
5. Thanks
"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator
by Ben Findley on Nov 29, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
Bowl payouts
I know the game in Birmingham jumped this year to $1.0 million for the SEC and $900,000 for the Big East, and the game in Charlotte pays out a minimum of $1.6 million now (which is adjusted based on ticket sales – Charlotte does a minimum guarantee). What used to be the Tangerine Bowl also went up to $2.25 million, and I think it’s scheduled to go up higher in a year or two.
by VA Libertarian on Nov 29, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Links
Charlotte:
http://www.meinekecarcarebowl.com/game/index.html
Birmingham:
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/11/espn_develops_new_financial_mo.html
Orlando:
Multiple places seem to say $2.25 has been the payout for a while now, but none of them are the best examples (since many of them are things like wikipedia). I’ve also seen it said that it’s $4.25 total, but nobody seems to say it’s an even split (as bowls rarely are) of that figure, though many have estimated it is.
by VA Libertarian on Nov 29, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks
Fixed Charlotte and Birmingham, will hold off for a semi-legit link on Orlando because 2.13 and 2.25 mil isn’t really that big of a difference in my opinion. I just wanted people to get the point that big east has a much better bowl situation than the MWC
"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator
by Ben Findley on Nov 29, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
Np
It’s actually annoying me that I can’t find a legit link for Orlando, but oh well. Rivals is saying $2.25, but I’m not sure where they got their info. from either, and it’s the best source I can find:
http://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=884403
You’re right that 2.13 & 2.25 aren’t a huge difference (comparatively), however, but I thought the other two at least needed correcting since it looked odd that a bowl in Birmingham paying out $400,000 less than a bowl in St. Petersburg would be above it. Or that a game in Charlotte would pay a full million less than a game that picks behind it in New York.
by VA Libertarian on Nov 29, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
I don't blame TCU in the least but hate them more than ever now
We’re gunning for you in 2011, Frogs.
Great for TCU
I have friends there, so it’s nice to see them happy about the big move. That…and I am sure this pisses off Baylor people, and I am always for that.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Nov 29, 2010 11:26 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
+2
Buck Faylor. Reading BaylorFans.com though it doesn’t seem to piss them off at all since they are so delusional, but that is the beauty of Baylor.
"Football is a violent game played by violent people, so put a smile on your face, murder in your heart and lets go kick these f***kers in the mouth" -Dick Bumpas, TCU Defensive Coordinator
by Ben Findley on Nov 30, 2010 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
Good Article
very entertaining and a great read, but a few things:
1. the pressure is unhealthy for student athletes? I’m reminded of Coach Hawkins comments a couple of years back: “This ain’t intramurals, brother.”
2. UT doesn’t receive public funds for its athletic program.
3. How do you get that we should be able to schedule home-and-homes w/ Notre Dame? I’m not aware that their relationship w/ the BE has anything to do w/ scheduling football series.
4. I didn’t know that about the individual sport travel difference, but that’s a huge cost savings for TCU and I hadn’t read that so thanks.
5. Add Cincy to the list of rust belt cities. They’ve done a lot along the river, but still a ways to go.
6. Basketball shouldn’t take 5-10 years to turn around, but it will probably take more time than I’m thinking. If we can start getting BE-level talent in recruiting, I think we can come in and be strong (middle of the BE is strong IMO) if local kids buy into the selling point you mention, which I think is a good one. Turning around a football team, now that can take 5-10 years.
Good article and I hope the BE can hold together and/or pluck KU, Missouri and maybe KSU.
ND agrees to play some BE team OOC
since they are in the basketball conference, and play in BE bowls.

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