Evaluation of Mountain West Conference Expansion Candidates
by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 8:00 AM PST
in Mountain West Football
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PrintWith the 2009 season in the books, it's time to focus on expansion. For those who believe the MWC is planning to expand, this is the offseason that we have been waiting for. If the Mountain West want's to use another teams data in their BCS Evaluation they must expand by July 1, 2010.
Currently we are halfway through the four-year BCS Evaluation cycle. The Mountain West is in good shape so far, but appears to be struggling with the "final regular-season rankings of all conference teams in the computer rankings used by the BCS each year" category. Depth is an issue and expansion can help that.
Here is a breakdown of candidates for expansion:
Note: This is only a football breakdown, since expansion would be focused on gaining a BCS Automatic Bid.
Boise State
2009 Final Record: (14-0) Final BCS Rank: 6 Final AP Rank: 4
2008 Final Record: (12-1) Final BCS Rank: 9 Final AP Rank: 11
TV Market Ranking: 112th with 262,800 TV households. (Pocatello/Idaho Falls has 126,880)
2005-2008 Average Attendance Per Game: 30,794 fans. (Stadium expanded from 30,000 to 32,000 in 2008)
ESPN Prestige Ranking: 54
Decade Ranking: 11
The Broncos are the obvious candidate. Boise State is a great program and is becoming a national name. They have won two BCS Bowls in just four seasons. The Broncos own the nations best record over the past decade going an impressive (112-17.) Boise State would be a solid addition, that would consistently give the Mountain West another Top 25 team.
What makes Boise State very attractive is their recent success. The BCS evaluation covers the years 2008-2011. Boise finished highly ranked in 2008, 2009 and will likely be even better in 2010. They could really boost the Mountain West's BCS resume.
Adding Boise State would give the Mountain West three additional games each season that would attract a national audience when they play TCU, Utah and BYU. Yes, Boise State is another "mouth to feed," as many fans put it, but in the long run they will bring in more revenue than they would take. Boise State has been the subject of nearly every expansion rumor. Look for Boise State to receive a MWC invite, and play in the league starting in 2011.
Fresno State
2009 Final Record: (8-5) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
2008 Final Record: (7-6) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
TV Market Ranking: 55th with 579,180 TV households.
2005-2008 Average Attendance Per Game: 38,003 fans.
ESPN Prestige Ranking: 55
Decade Ranking: 37
If the Mountain West expands to 12 teams, I think Fresno State gets in. Of all the candidates, they have the best fan support and are also in a decent TV Market. Fresno State is a solid program, and would rarely fall to the bottom of the conference. Gaining Fresno State can help the MWC enter the Northern California market, which could help get the Mtn. in more homes. Fresno is also plays well against BCS schools.
Fresno State was a part of the recent rumors about the MWC expanding to 12 teams. Although the rumor is belived to be false, I'd expect Fresno to get in if the conference expands to 12.
Nevada
2009 Final Record: (8-5) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
2008 Final Record: (7-6) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
TV Market Ranking: 110th with 270,500 TV households.
2005-2008 Average Attendance Per Game: 16,983 fans.
ESPN Prestige Ranking: 71
Decade Ranking: 75
I don't see Nevada as a very strong candidate for expansion. They really don't have much to offer. They are are an improving team and program, but would likely struggle more in the MWC than they have in the WAC. Their fan support is not very strong and their TV Market is not great.
A positive of adding Nevada could be to provide a conference rival for UNLV. Also, they are a good geographic fit to the Mountain West. The Wolfpack was a part of the recent Mountain West expansion rumor, so maybe they can cross their fingers. I just don't see it happening.
Houston
2009 Final Record: (10-4) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
2008 Final Record: (8-5) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
TV Market Ranking: 10th with 2,123,460 TV households.
2005-2008 Average Attendance Per Game: 17,356 fans.
ESPN Prestige Ranking: 47
Decade Ranking: 83
Although Houston is not in the mountains and is not west, they are still a geographic fit for the conference. Houston could provide a lot of benefits. They are in one of the largest TV Markets in the country which also happens to be a recruiting hot bed. Adding Houston can improve Texas recruiting for many MWC schools. The Cougars also have a decent history in basketball.
If the MWC expands to 12 teams, I like them to invite Houston. Houston's recent play would help in the BCS Evaluation, and they should be good over the next few years as well.
Tulsa
2009 Final Record: (5-7) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
2008 Final Record: (11-3) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked
TV Market Ranking: 61st with 528,070 TV households.
2005-2008 Average Attendance Per Game: 23,274 fans.
ESPN Prestige Ranking: 64
Decade Ranking: 62
Tulsa is a team that rarely comes up when talking about MWC expansion. Maybe it is because they considered out of the MWC region. They are about as good of a fit as Houston is though. Tulsa has a decent fan base with decent success. Their problem is they are the third best college team in a state that has about 3.6 million people.
Tulsa doesn't offer the recruiting and TV market that Houston does. I think Tulsa is a respectable team, but will not make the cut if the conference expands to 12 teams.
SMU
2009 Final Record: (8-5) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked 2008 Final Record: (1-11) Final BCS Rank: Unranked Final AP Rank: Unranked TV Market Ranking: 5th with 2,544,410 TV households. (TCU is in same market) 2005-2008 Average Attendance Per Game: 20,060 fans. ESPN Prestige Ranking: 61 Decade Ranking: 117 The once respectable SMU Mustangs really have struggled since they were given the "death penalty" in 1987. With their drastic improvement in the 2009 season, led by head coach June Jones, they hope they will get back to the level the once were at. They are TCU's rival, and are located in a great Texas area. They have an excellent past which features 2 national championships won in the 80s. SMU could probably hurt the Mountain West more in the BCS Evaluations than they would help however. Their (1-11) season could really pull the conference down, since SDSU also went (2-11) that season. What makes SMU intriguing is their past. If they can get back to the level they were at in the 1980s they can be a strong candidate. I don't think they will get an invite though. They may get one later if the conference decides to delay expansion, or if the MWC only invites one team and later expands to 12. ESPN Presitge Rankings and Dennis Dodd's decade rankings were done following the 2008 season. TV Rankings are current. Follow Michael Rueckert on Twitter @MichaelRueckert
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If the conference was to go to 12 teams, notice the east/west division
If they added Boise State, Fresno State and Houston it could be:
West: Fresno State, San Diego State, UNLV Boise State, Utah, BYU
East: Wyoming, Colorado State, Air Force, New Mexico, TCU, Houston
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 8:27 AM PST reply actions
divisions
I think the acc model is way to go with by putting tcu and Boise in one half with Utah and BYU in the other. That would allow for better balance
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 10:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Certainly right now.
But I do think that CSU will work their way back. Ft. Collins is far too sweet of a town to not have that happen. (And I went to school in Laramie.)
But even though E/W makes more travel sense, I tend to prefer a N/S split. Put Wyo, Boise, Utah, BYU, CSU, and USAFA in the north, and the rest in the south. It doesn’t solve the Boise/BYU/Utah vs. TCU problem, but it keeps more of the existing rivalries intact.
by David Hooper on Jan 21, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
North/South is horrible.
Your split means Utah, BYU and Boise don’t have a guaranteed game in CA or TX every year. It will kill recruiting for Utah, and maybe for Boise. Probably won’t affect BYU very much, but Utah needs division rivals in TX or CA, if not both.
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by displacedute on Jan 21, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
It would be nice to have TCU, Boise State, Utah and BYU evenly split, but I don't think it geographically works.
Air Force, Houston and Colorado State will annually be competitive with TCU. Also, becoming an AQ will bring programs like CSU or Houston up.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
true
But it make TCU have a very easy path to a title game if there were 12 teams.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah TCU would run the table like Florida has recently in the SEC
I think Boise State and TCU in the same division would be a great rivalry, with Utah and BYU in the opposite division.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Excellent!
I might one of few to think this but Fresno should not be added. They are not really near San Francisco area and depending on the greyshirt rules in the Mountain West they would be no better then Air Force. The reason Fresno was so good and always getting close with the big boys as well as conference heavy weight Boise State is that the greyshirt rules were loose in the WAC. Ever since the WAC drastically reduced the amount of greyshirts Fresno has been decent.
Basically Fresno would get players who did not qualify academically from USC, Oregon, Arizona and other west coast schools they would sit out a year and could regain that year if they graduated in four years. Most of the times those players were high caliber recruits. I will need to research this but unless the MWC is more lenient on grey shirts Fresno is fourth on my list.
Obviously it is Boise hopefully this summer, and if they go to 12 grab Houston and Nevada. The reason for Houston is obvious by adding a large TV market for the league and a travel partner with Houston also they are old SWC rivals, and then Nevada would bring an instant rival to UNLV. Fresno would be by itself out there in California.
Interesting.
Besides bringing Nevada as an instate rival for UNLV, what does UNR offer? TV market is mediocre, fan attendance is poor, history is poor also. Fresno is a much stronger candidate in my opinion. Fresno has great attendance, with a very weak home schedule also.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Hoops???
I still think it depends on the MWC grey shirting rules which is how they were great. Fresno does have history since they were in the WAC with the current MWC sans TCU and UNLV.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
Their hoops is decent I guess.
I don’t understand the grey shirt rules so I can’t offer an opinion on that.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
I kind of know what they are
Basically it is students who do not qualify with grades and cant get into a certain school. Some then go to a school that is easier in academics and must sit out a year to focus on grades and if they graduate in four years they get that year back to play. Fresno would get some good talent that did not qualify in the Pac-10, so they would always have a handful of players that are upper tier Pac-10 talent coming out of HS. I am not sure of the rule change but just know that the WAC cracked down on the amount of those players which has conversely hurt Fresno.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Clueless
You do realize that Fresno State has not taken Prop 48 students for years. Greyshirting is the ability of a player to join the school in January and not lose any eligibility towards their NCAA Academic status. If you are going to make statements, then get educated first. Also, those Prop 48 students graduated. The alternative is the Big Boys like Miami send them to a Community College for two years and then scoop them back up.
Either way you look at it, Fresno State has not taken them for years.
ok
I do know that Fresno has not taken those players because of the WAC cracking down on how many that was my point. Because Fresno would get the ones that didn’t qualify at pac 10 schools.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 4:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
WAC crack down?
When did that occur. Actually Fresno State stopped the practice years ago in hopes of gaining entrance into the MWC and had nothing to do with the WAC. The WAC, like many other conferences, eventually did stop allowing those players into their conferences. Those players still had to legitimately gain entrance into the University and pay their own way the first year there while not practicing with the team.
While Fresno State has not been lighting the football world on fire like Boise the last few years (and who has), they have been doing ok. Fresno is within 3 hours of SF and recruits in that area. Fresno would be the travel partner with SDSU and not “by itself.” Fresno’s upcoming home schedules are also not “weak” by any means.
You also need to look at what the possible Universities bring as a whole. Boise would be a good add and a natural fit geographically, but are they able to bring all of their sports programs including those that compete outside of the WAC. Are they able or willing to add other programs that the MWC currently has that they do not?
Ultimately, if the MWC can’t get AQ status, then there should be no reason to add any teams based on football.
that is what I heard in the past
that the WAC was limiting the amount of Prop 48 athletes per school.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
decent basketball program
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Are you serious?
Why would you not add Fresno? Out of the list they have the most abundant loyal fans. In the Midwest the college towns tend to be away from the Giant cities. Nobody goes to Nevada or Houston games. Here in the Midwest we respect Fresno State since they have come out here and beat the local teams bringing thousands of fans.
With regards to caliber of recruits… this is an off year and they have 6 players invited to the NFL.
San Diego State is a 5 hour drive. They beat Cal the last 2 times they played them, they beat UCLA the last 2 times they played them, they should have beat #1 USC in 2005, but fell short after leading in the 4th quarter. I went to UC Irvine and Pepperdine for undergrad and grad, and Fresno State brought more than 1000 fans for each baseball game, or basketball game.
They have not had academic non-qualifiers since Hill instituted the academic game plan. I think they probably have the highest graduation rate next to BYU or Air Force. Most of their 5th years we working on Masters Degrees after having red-shirted. I cannot figure out what school you represent other than Nevada because outside of football, Fresno State has the most well rounded program. Do your research.
plus i like pat hill's approach
any school, any time. did you see how they beat illinios. they won 53-52. they went for the two point conversion, the qb was about to be sacked. he threw the ball up. it simultaneously hit a illinois and fresno player on the helmets and it bounced to the biggest lineman on fresno state and he fell, yes fell into the end zone. game over.
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
What?!!
You do realize that Fresno State-San Diego State are rivals, right? So how would Fresno State be all alone out there in California? Not to mention Fresno has set the standard for Graduation Rate with the “Academic Game Plan”. So where do you get off that they mainly target non-academic qualifers? Do your research, besides that, the last time Utah, BYU, CSU, Wyoming, Air Force, New Mexico, and SDSU invited Fresno to join a confrence, they came in and won the WAC in their first season. The teams that get in with expansion of the MWC are Fresno, Boise, and Houston if the MWC is smart enough to see it. Also, Fresno has rivalries with Utah(football) and with UNLV
Why does UTEP never get mentioned?
Bigger market then Boise. It’s in Texas which is a huge plus. Fits geographically. Easy for New Mexico and TCU for travel. Better than SMU over the last four years. I like UTEP better than Nevada or SMU right now.
Boise is the only team that has to be added in my opinion. They have the record that will help the MWC gain automatic status.
Twelve teams means a championship game but then with 12 shares the size each of share a team receives would get smaller so each would probably earn less.
UTEP is in texas but not really
You make good points over SMU, but Nevada might be better because of the rival with UNLV. Fresno may get in because of old WAC ties. UTEP is out of place in CUSA and may go back to the WAC
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 11:03 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Houston, Fresno State, Boise State and Nevada are stronger candidates than UTEP.
SMU is a candidate because of their history, and rivalry with TCU. SMU was a very good program before receiving the death penalty. I like what June Jones has established there, and I think they could get back to a competitive level. It make take a bit longer though.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Expansion question
As I’m more of a college basketball fan, I was curious about the impact on basketball. If they went to 12 teams, would the scheduling be similar to now with teams missing a particular opponent? Or will every team be loaded up with 6 more conference games, and thus have fewer non-conference games?
No clue
I would be a fan of more conference games since some schools tend to play two or three really, really low level schools. Currently each team plays each other twice, if they were to just add Boise it would be the same. With 12 not sure if they would go to a divisional format that would have 10 games between the 5 division foes and then only one with the other side which would 16 conference games. That can make for some unbalance, but it would at least give the league 16 games without having to play some divisional teams twice while others dont plus 16 games keeps it the same as it is now.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
The basketball schedule would likely be as follows:
Each school is put into one of two 6-team divisions. You play every school in your division twice (10 games) and every school in the other division once (6 games) for a total of 16 games, just like now.
There is also some suggestion of doing 4 3-team divisions, which would mean you play your division twice every year, then one of the other three twice (for 10 games) and the other two just once (6 games)
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by displacedute on Jan 21, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
Question: if the MWC does not add any teams, how likely is an AQ bid?
If they can make it without adding anybody, then the conference holds all the cards at the negotiating table. If the MWC needs Boise to gain AQ, then Boise is in the catbird seat on this deal.
Personally, I like the idea of adding Boise only. It’s a pain schedule-wise, but I’m not sold on the sustainability of any of the other schools at the moment, and I’d really hate to add a team that’s doing well today, but goes into the tank for years and years afterwards.
In 2 of the 3 evaluation categories, the MWC is in great shape. Depth is the issue though.
I’m with you on just inviting Boise State also. Only bring in what you have to. The MWC can play round-robin scheduling and decide later if they want to go to 12.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
I also like the idea of inviting only Boise this year, then maybe inviting others later.
If the MWC really wants a 12-team slate but wants to maximize their odds on AQ status, they’ll endure the one 10-team season so that they can get the AQ. And then, whoever wins the WAC the next year around is the likely 11th team (and whoever has been most consistently good is the 12th.)
One last thought, and I'll quit shotgunning: what about Arizona and Arizona State?
Is there any chance whatsoever of pulling them from the PAC-10? They used to be a part of the old WAC, and they make perfect geographic sense. I would expect that the answer is a resounding “no”, but I figured I’d toss it out there since we’re speculating.
And that would most definitely solve the balance-of-power issue.
I doubt it.
Maybe if the MWC became an AQ they can pull in Arizona, Arizona State or Colorado later. Even if the MWC becomes an AQ, they would be considered one of the weakest AQ Conferences. Revenue will still be an issue, even with the AQ BCS spot. The MWC has a lot of growing left to do.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
no way on AZ or ASU
No way they are in a good spot. I think the MWC has a good shot to gain AQ status but adding Boise makes them a near shoe in and makes sense. 10 teams does make a better fit then just stretching for 12 teams. If 12 its Boise, Houston, and Nevada
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 1:20 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I disagree.
Nevada adds nothing that we want. If we go to 12 it’s Boise, Fresno, and Houston.
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by displacedute on Jan 21, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
What if the Pac 10 expands
If the pac 10 plans on expanding and taking Utah or whoever does that change how the Mountain West chooses these teams. For example if Utah or BYU would leave, the mountain west would need a upper tier team to replace. Therefore, I believe Houston and Boise State and Fresno are the best bets with that in mind.
What else do we have to prove?
Pac-10 expansion makes MWC expansion much, much more important.
What is most likely is Utah & Colorado to the Pac-10. Adding Boise State would replace Utah without much of a drop of, if at all.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
have you ever thought that the pac ten might invite boise state?
beat the mwc to the punch.
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
The Pac-10 wouldn't invite Boise State
Academics are an issue. The Pac-10 has very high academics standards.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 22, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
Tough call
Because even if the MWC invites Boise it all comes down to timing for when the Pac-10 would announce expansion and if the MWC gets an auto bid. I think the Utes would leave the MWC if the Pac-10 calling especially if it is unknown about the MWC as an AQ school. If the MWC knows it will get an invite to the the BCS Utah should say no since they will all ready be at the top of a BCS league instead of having to fight for a few years to go from middle tier Pac-10 to elite Pac-10.
It all comes down to timing on that.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Even if the MWC becomes an AQ, I don't think Utah would pass up an opportunity to play in the Pac-10
Prestige, Bowl tie-ins, revenue is all much better in the Pac 10. I think Utah could be nearly as competitive in the Pac-10 as they are in the MWC. Who knows how good USC will be with Pete Carroll gone.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
disagree. much harder to build something then join the pac ten.
the mwc has surpassed the pac-ten in football for the last two years and we are definitely better in basketball this year. i like coach whitt turning down sec. which gives me hope that utah would turn down the pac-ten if the mwc was guaranteed aq bcs status with or without boise state. they did not want us in the early eighties was it? now that we are doing better they want us. screw them.
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Indeed
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*proactol plus*
by Juliuz Prize on Jun 12, 2011 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I team that I completely forgot is Hawaii.
I don’t think they would get in though
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 3:18 PM PST reply actions
I don't think anybody wants Hawaii.
That travel is a monster. I know that they’ve wanted to join the PAC-10 in the past and have been denied, and I’m pretty sure that the MWC wants nothing to do with them either.
by David Hooper on Jan 21, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
Recruiting would be an advantage
Lots of MWC teams recruit Hawaii. But like you said, travel wouldn’t be worth it, especially in sports other than football.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
FRESNO STATE MAKES SENSE!
They have a huge basketball arena on campus, 20k students, joint degree doctoral programs with UC schools (I am a UC alum), they have great attendance, die hard fans, infrastructure, the academic game plan, loads of players in the NFL, nationwide respect, wins last 2 times they played Cal in football, wins the last 2 times they played UCLA in football, and 1 of the last 2 times they played USC. They provide SDSU witha rival, but SDSU does not return the favor, they have a good coach, they won a National Championship in 2008 for Baseball. I think it is fear that provided the resources Fresno State would leapfrog BYU, Utah, and Nevada the way Cincy has in the Big East.
I think Fresno State is a great candidate, but don't think they will jump Utah or BYU.
It is important that MWC teams play well against BCS conference teams, and Fresno State does a great job at that.
My top candidates are:
1. Boise State
2. Houston
3. Fresno State
With little separation between Houston and Fresno
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
not really
Fresno plays the schools but rarely wins. The Illini win was over a bad team and they came close to Wisconsin and they get most of their credit over a close loss to USC.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
you know not what you're talking about
You’re totally ignorant about Fresno’s program dude: First your grey shirt implications are completely wrong. Fresno doesn’t pick up that many Pac10 recruits, and when they do – it’s not because of academics. Cases in point: 2 WR’s verbally commited to CAL this year, and academically qualified…. They just reneged on Cal and committed to Fresno. As another poster said, Fresno stopped taking prop 48’s years ago… They play by the NCAA rules on Grey shirts (they don’t have many)… and they have the 4th highest APR ranking of public schools in the Western states. They also now hold the WAC record (including BYU, ASU, etc… ) for Academic All Conference atheletes…. lead by the Football program. Regarding FSU’s record against BCS schools: They have 15 wins under Pat Hill…and I believe they are tied with Utah for the most BCS wins in the 00-09 decade by a non-AQ school. Yes, they also have 28 BCS losses… But keep in mind, all but about 7 games have been on the road. We’re not Boise… but we sure ain’t chopped liver, and we’ve proven we’ll play anyone, anytime, anywhere….and win. Only 7 home games out of 43 vs. BCS schools? Wins over Cal, UCLA, Cincinnatti, Wisconsin, Virginia, Georgia Tech to name a few. Yes, some of these BCS teams weren’t very good… But they ALL had a helluva lot more RESOURCES, and most all these games were on the road for Fresno.
Im just saying that is what I have heard about their program in the past.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
really what big wins does Fresno have?
Like i said their best outing was an almost win over USC. Illinois is a bad school this year, and when was the last time Fresno beat a ranked team?
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
Fresno has lost 4 of 5 to SDSU
I mean C’MON MAN!
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by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 21, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
yup
Fresno plays the big teams and usually comes up short.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
USC loss is still a loss
There are some Bulldog fans that reflect on the 2005 USC game as a “good loss”. IMO it’s still a loss. I’d rather reflect on the 1992 WIN over USC. Fresno has BEAT plenty of BCS teams… How many BCS wins does your team have? How many BCS teams have you played? On the road?
Utah has the most wins of any non-AQ team against the BCS the past 5 years.
I think Utah is 13-4 against the BCS since 2004 (including bowl games).
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by displacedute on Jan 22, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
Quality > Quantity
Fresno State has beaten a lot of BCS teams, but has lost a lot too.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 23, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
We’re not Boise… but we sure ain’t chopped liver, and we’ve proven we’ll play anyone, anytime, anywhere….and win.
Except IN Boise. I’d take out the “anywhere” part.
One thing about CSUF, they’re always good for a few conference losses.
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
can't argue
Yep, no doubt we’re Boise’s bitch… You won’t get any argument from me.
WOW, I didn't expect you to go to such extremes!
But, okay… you’re right!
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
you forget that fresno travelled 30,000 miles this year if you count the bowl game.
you get rid of hawaii and that is alot of miles.
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
that was still a great game with illinios
decided by a miraculous two point conversion that i talked about above.
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
SDSU doesn't return the favor? LMFAO
The only sport Fresno is any good at is baseball, and oh guess what? Guess who beat Fresno State in the 2009 NCAA regional? SDSU beat Fresno State 4-1 in the 2009 NCAA Irvine Regional, and no Steven Strasburg, the #1 overall pick out of San Diego State did NOT start the game.
Basketball? San Diego State’s 62-58 win over Fresno State in November ran its winning streak to 4 straight over them.
Football? San Diego State has a life-time record of 26-20-4 against Fresno State, including 4 out of the last 5. I can also tell you for sure that a)They won’t be playing anytime in the near future, and (b) Whichever team wins the Super Bowl this year, an AZTEC will get a ring.
Nice try though.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 21, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Get Real
Just because SDSU beats Fresno once every decade when the play football, they’re considered a better sports school?
LOL, I almost choked on my carne asada tacos and corona when I read that.
SDSU hasn’t been significant in ANYTHING but basketball, and that’s only been recently.
As for baseball, are you serious? Who cares that they beat the Dogs in the ’09 regional, who holds a National Championship in baseball again? What happened AFTER they beat Fresno last year in the regional?
And congrats on beating a Fresno State team in basketball by four points, you do know that this is the FIRST year that Fresno State’s basketball team has all it’s scholarships right? Give us time, we’re still feeling the backlash from some previous coaches. Which is why the school hired Cleveland, you know, that coach that jumped ship from one of the MWC’s more prestigious schools….
Face it, Fresno State runs circles around SDSU when it comes to sports programs.
Are you illiterate?
Did you not just read irrefutable facts that negate what you just said?
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 21, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
correct
So SDSU beat Fresno in hoops when they had less scholies AND when at full strength. Hmmm…. either way SDSU wins.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
Speaking of scholies
Weren’t the Fresno people just touting the academic brilliance of their players and now they bring up losing scholarships because of failing grades? I mean, make up your mind.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 21, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
fresno state won the ncaa title in baseball a few years ago. correct?
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
good fan
Glad to hear SDSU has at least 1 fan…. What’s your football average attendance? Dude your facts are all accurate….I’ll give you that. But it’s also accurate that FSU vs. SDSU is 4-4 since FSU joined the WAC in ‘92. What is SDSU’s overall football record the last 2 decades? Not very good. With all the recruiting advantages you have, it’s a mystery to me why the Aztecs consistently have losing records and finish in the bottom half of the MWC year in and year out. Maybe you can explain it since you’re so smart.
San Diego Sports Curse
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 22, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
wow
I doubt that Fresno would pass BYU and Utah like Cincy did in the Big East
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 7:39 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Besides
Doing well in football in the Big East is like doing well in FCS. Either way, you still suck.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 21, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
The scholarship issue was about five years ago, under Lopes.
Look, all you have to do is look at where both CSU’s are with respect to their over-all sports programs.
Again, congrats on the basketball thing, but it’s not as if the Aztecs are making noise every year in the Big Dance. I think you’ve been to the Tourney TWICE this decade, and haven’t gotten pass the first round (at least the Dogs made it pass the first round in the tourney in ’00!)
Same with baseball, wasn’t last year’s post season the first the Aztecs have seen in like 15 yrs?
And let’s not even talk about football.
Fresno State has been the most successful of the two, there’s just no arguing it.
SDSU is just a big school with potential, yet they’ve always managed to under perform in just about everything.
Not sure how you can claim to be better in football
When SDSU holds the advantage in all-time matchups and 4 out of the last 5 matchups. Just sayin…
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 21, 2010 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
Funny how the last time you beat Fresno State (12 seasons ago) was also the last time you had a winning season. You talk pretty big for a school that has been to one bowl game in almost twenty years and hasn’t won one since 1969. SDSU hasn’t won a single game against a BCS team in over a decade…Fresno State has beaten 15 BCS programs since your last win.
Please give me one actual fact that suggests SDSU has a better program other than “we won 4 straight back in the 90’s”.
And...
Fresno State has their very own Street Gang.
Take that San Diego St.!!
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
by Mikrino on Jan 22, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Now that’s funny…you do know that Southern California is the Gang Capital of the WORLD right?
How many gangs thrive throughout San Diego?
Fresno is no exception to gang activity, just like any other large city in California.
Ummm.. Fresno is not in Southern California, Nice try though.
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
In addition,
I just think its funny there’s a gang in Fresno that goes around dressed as football players.
By the way, I think gangs are a global phenomenon. It’s not just limited to California. But I won’t argue if you say you have the “best” gangs there.
But really, that’s like saying you have the best cockroaches, or the best rat infestation.
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
Fresno State has U of Illinois & Cincy at home in 2010
They are no the road against Ole Miss. According to CFB Data Warehouse they won a share of the WAC title the first 2 years they were in the WAC then had a few poor years as Jim Sweeney’s contract ran out, but Pat Hill has taken them to a bowl almost every year.
Houston is a large metro area, but nobody cares about UH football. It is like DePaul basketball in Chicago. I live 12 mile from Northwestern, and I have a view of soldier field. Here people care about the Bulls, the Bears, the Blackhawks, and the Cubs. That is it. In Houston, they have the Astros, the Texans, and the Rockets. Texas A&M is close as is UT Austin. Fresno State clearly wins. Long term more so than Boise.
Fresno State better long term than Boise?
I don’t think so.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 21, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
hmmm
I grew up in Houston and know that UH is low on the list with it being an Aggie and Longhorn crowd, but for a competitive standpoint they would be a good fit. Plus, there are a ton of Utah and BYU alums in Houston as well as TCU. Fresno plays big teams but when was the last big win they had? The Illini win was a bad team.
I dont think its that clear cut for Fresno over Houston. I get the point of Fresno, but with games in Houston and the plain fact they are good helps. Plus, if they become a BCS league the talent would increase a lot, and the league would not be built around Houston but rather Utah, BYU, TCU, and Boise. Just having The Mtn. in Houston would be huge,
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Over-all
I would bet that Fresno State’s sports facilities and fan support are better than any other non-AQ on this list of “potential” candidates for expansion.
Our facilities and fan support can be compared to the elite of the MWC.
Even in our down years, we average more fans at home games then most other non-AQ’s when they’re having great seasons.
If the MWC wants to add a football school, go with Boise State.
If they want to add a school that has much more, add Fresno State.
I am not completely discounting Fresno
I just feel that Nevada or Houston being a better option if the league were to go to 12 schools (after Boise comes along). People who keep saying Fresno goes at and plays big boys which they do, but how about beating some once in a while.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 21, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
Our facilities and fan support can be compared to the elite of the MWC.
Even in our down years, we average more fans at home games then most other non-AQ’s when they’re having great seasons.
Uhmmmm, that’s actually not true.
BYU is far and away the NAQ leader in fan support. In fact, no other NAQ team is even in th3 top 50 in average attendance other than BYU. Utah is 53rd. East Carolina, TCU, UCF, Hawaii and Air Force all draw more football fans than Fresno, who is 69th on the list. Right in front of Boise State at 70th.
fan support can be compared to the elite of the MWC.
More like the elite of the WAC or CUSA or something…
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
partially correct stats
The stats I found from NCAA 2008 season had leading non AQ’s ranked as follows (by average per home game):
27. BYU @ 64k 51. Utah @ 45k 57. ECU @ 42k 58 Hawaii @ 41k 59. Navy @ 40k
61. UCF @39k 64. Air Force @ 38k 65. Fresno @ 38k 66. UTEP @ 37k
70. Boise St. @ 32k 75. TCU @ 30k 77. New Mexico @ 30k 83. SDSU @ 24k
BYU & Utah combine for over 100 thousand fans per game. Both schools are about 40 miles away
I wonder how college football would be in Utah if BYU did not exist?
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 22, 2010 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
The highlighted "BYU" in my post IS the NCAA link... for this year.
That’s where the information came from.
So if I’m wrong, blame somebody at the NCAA.
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
By the way, even with your redundant post, my comment still stands;
More like the elite of the WAC or CUSA or something…
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
Wow Fresno State fans really raided these comments
I wasn’t able to message since dinner time. Looks like I missed out on a lot of fun.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 22, 2010 1:19 AM PST reply actions
As a Boise State fan...
I worry that my team will go down hill after the espn exposure vanishes because your STUPID tv contract. I don’t underestimate the miracles that ESPN has done for Boise State.
ESPN has helped
Boise and the MWC in the early days with the Thursday and Friday games. I hope that for the next deal that the MWC can keep the Mtn so that more games are on tv, but get a few games a week on ESPN.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 22, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
I need to bring this up with the FCC.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 22, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions
The ESPN exposure is great for you guys, you would be fine without it.
Utah, TCU and BYU do ok without it. Even without ESPN exposure, TCU nearly played in the BCS Title Game this year, and Utah finished #2 in the AP.
Your non-conference road games could be on ESPN and also your bowl game. Utah played on ESPN twice and ESPNU once this year.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 22, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
ESPN would find a way.
They just don’t ignore opportunities to air games of national interest. Assuming MWC teams can maintain quality, that will happen.
by David Hooper on Jan 22, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
Boise, Fresno and Houston for sure
Makes the East/West divisions work pretty well (nobody else needs to go down the moronic road the ACC did). Then when the Pac-10 takes Utah and Colorado (Boise would actually make sense since they’re the current Pac-10 wrestling champs a couple of years running, but I bet Colorado would be invited first) bring in UNR or Hawaii. LA Tech then replaces Houston in CUSA, and the WAC will have to hope a few I-AA teams on the west coast choose to move up after the moratorium ends…
i agree with those three teams
fresno has just as many wins over aq bcs schools than boise does. they schedule alot of aq bcs schools. boise of course has the better resume. i think fresno gets a bad rap b/c their city is kinda crime ridden. so, so are 40% of the schools in the sec. did you see that usc won the rights to usc over south carolina. even though south carolina university is 70 years older. i say let them settle it on the field at a nuetral site. kansas city’s arrowhead stadium would be perfect. houston has a large media market and they could be put in with the tcu side of the conf. did anybody see that tcu opens next season with oregon state in jerry jones new cowboy stadium. i think tcu and boise will both beat osu and they are ranked in the preseason rankings next football year. all three of them.
i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 22, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Big Ten (11) expansion
If the Big Ten expands, many have speculated that they will take Mizzou. This will undoubtedly set off another round of conference re-alignment. The Big 12 would have a hole to fill, with possible candidates – TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice, Tulsa, & UTEP. The Horned Frogs make the most sense given their recent success and historic ties via the old SW Conference. If this happens the MWC could just take Boise and keep it at nine conference members; or take BSU, FS, Houston and Nevada (with some consideration of UTEP) to make it an even 12.
There is no way that UA or ASU would bolt the PAC 10 even if the MWC received a BCS bid. If the PAC 10 decides to expand it would be Colorado and Utah as the only real considerations. As a Boise State fan, I would love to see the Broncos in the PAC 10, but they need to round out their academic and other athletics before that would ever happen – maybe 20 to 30 years from now.
True
The Big 10 expansion could be huge or very little. If they take Pitt or ND that affects the MWC very little. Missouri is the big key because the Big XII would need a team and I could see them taking BYU over TCU because TCU would be a bad geographic fit and by putting them in the North they would be an instant contender. I think BYU would be the choice since they wanted them before Governor Ann Richards from Texas muscled in Baylor to the Big XII over BYU. Adding BYU would keep the north/south divisions in alignment.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 23, 2010 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
Link for BYU to Big 12?
I’ve heard this before, but just because BYU wanted out of the WAC and a better television deal in the mid-1990s, and some Texas newspapers discussed the idea of BYU in the newly forming Big 12, doesn’t mean it was seriously considered by the university presidents. I have yet to see something legit about this, though it seems to be gospel on BYU boards and blogs.
TCU, SMU, Houston, & Rice all have historic ties to the Big 12. Even UT-San Antonio would seem to offer a better choice than BYU. It would seem the real geographic distance would trump some arbitrary geographic division.
by SactoBronco on Jan 23, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
Trust me it is legit
I lived in Houston and BYU was going to go to the Big XII until Ann Richards forced her hand and wanted to bring Baylor. Ill search for a link that refers to that. Really UTSA gotta be kidding me, BYU would be a fit because they have a large fan base, large stadium, and a lot of people of the Mormon faith follow BYU.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 23, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
It's kinda hard to find a link from something that happened in 1996
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 23, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
It shouldn't be . . .
especially for something that was “going” to happen. The internet is an amazing tool, I know I can use my local library database (Newslink) to find articles in my hometown newspaper back to 1976 (and they are adding older issues to it on an ongoing basis). I assume via Jeremy’s comments above that the Houston Chronicle covered this. Stories about BYU in the Chronicle are probably available (although probably behind a paywall) somewhere. I’ll even take just a citation.
Again, with this expansion issue flaring up again via the Big Ten discussion, certainly this story would reemerge somewhere in Big 12 country since that conference may itself be plundered and looking for a replacement for Mizzou.
Here is an article that says it came down to Baylor and TCU for the final Big 12 spot.
According to folklore, politicians in Austin made the decisions and forced Texas and Texas A&M to take Texas Tech and Baylor along. That’s the “biggest myth in the west,” according to former Texas chancellor William Cunningham.
Texas Tech would join the 12-team league on its own merits, Cunningham said. The final spot came down to Baylor or TCU. Those two were the only viable choices.
“Baylor had much better attendance at football games, and Baylor’s overall statistical profile was much more positive,” Cunningham said. “When we looked at it and tried to say which one was the logical choice, Baylor appeared to be the more logical choice.”
The only people that have told me BYU was invited was BYU fans, and now Jeremy. I have no idea if it is true.
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by Michael Rueckert on Jan 23, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
Casts doubt on Richards involvement as well
Thank you for the link. As you indicated, the article states that the final spot for the newly formed Big 12 came down to Baylor or TCU. Additionally, it throws cold water onto the Richards connection:
Richards informed but wasn’t a driving force
One of the biggest misconceptions about the breakup of the Southwest Conference was that former Texas Gov. Ann Richards used her political clout to push Baylor into the Big 12. Those close to loquacious Baylor graduate say that just isn’t true.
Benefit of the doubt
However, I would appreciate a link or at least a citation.
While the UTSA reference was tongue-in-cheek, ten years from now it may not be. Look at the progress of South Florida, UCONN, Cincinnati, and Boise State.
I know UTSA was a joke
Ill find something tomorrow when I have more time to research.
by Jeremy Mauss on Jan 23, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
There could really be 4 rounds of expansion
1) Big 11 and Pac-10
2) Big 12 (Colorado seems a lock to leave if invited, Mizzou likely) and Big East (if Mizzou or ND isn’t added to the Big 11, and maybe even if they just want to get to 12 teams)
3) MWC (regardless of who gets picked for the Big 12 or Pac-10, conferences should need 12 teams and a championship game to get a BCS bid IMO)
4) CUSA (likely to get raided by the MWC, definitely by the Big East)
Context – I’m an SEC fan (UGA) so I like the regional division, 12 team setup. I think the MWC deserves an autobid the moment they expand to 12 teams and a championship game because there is some good football being played over there, and adding the best WAC and CUSA teams to get to 12 can only help.
by commodore_dude on Jan 24, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
Expanding
Glad to see your community expands – this is a good news! hyip monitor
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by davidsmith9821 on Jul 27, 2011 10:35 AM PDT reply actions
Thanks for a great article! I just have a question, though. I was reading the comments and that made also think about how come that the Fresno State has not taken Prop 48 students for the last years? I mean why wouldn’t they?
Howard - keele-conference
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