MWC vs. SEC
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Recently I had the pleasure of examining the claim that the SEC is vastly superior to the MWC. I chose to examine all game between the current members of the MWC and SEC this century.
The results ended in a tie with a record of 7-7. In games decided by more than seven points the MWC leads 5-3, and also lead 2-0 in bowl games. Five games were at MWC venues, seven at SEC venues. Whether the other two were on neutral fields would depend on if Alabama in the Sugar Bowl and UNLV in the Las Vegas Bowl are considered neutral fields.
If the SEC's 3-0 record in 2000 is relegated to the past, then the MWC leads the series 6-5 and 4-2 in games decided by more than a TD, despite a 4-6 home-away ratio. If one also takes away TCU's games while they were in C-USA the series is tied 5-5 with the MWC leading 3-2 in games decided by more than a TD, despite a 3-6 home-away ratio.
This certainly sounds like SEC domination to me, the MWC isn't even close ; )
A list of the games is provided after the jump.
2008
MWC: Utah 31 vs. Alabama 13 @ Sugar Bowl
MWC: Wyoming 13 @ Tennessee 7
2006:
SEC: Air Force 30 @ Tennessee 31
2005:
MWC: Wyoming 24 @ Ole Miss 14
SEC: Wyoming 14 @ Florida 32
2004:
MWC: Wyoming 37 vs. Ole Miss 32
SEC: UNLV 17 @ Tennessee 42
2003:
MWC: TCU(C-USA) 30 vs. Vanderbilt 14
2002:
SEC: Wyoming 7 vs. Tennessee 47
2001:
MWC: BYU 41 @ Mississippi State 38
SEC: UNLV 10 vs. Arkansas 14
2000:
SEC: BYU 28 vs. Mississippi State 44
SEC: UNLV 40 @ Ole Miss 43
SEC: UNLV 31 vs. Arkansas 14 @ Las Vegas Bowl
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Factual error
UNLV beat Arkansas in the 2000 Las Vegas Bowl.
The series is tied 7-7, the MWC leads 5-3 in games decided by more than a TD, and 2-0 in bowl games.
That helps to establish the SEC’s actual dominance. I knew the numbers were too good to be true.
by utesfan100 on Oct 3, 2009 9:06 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
for sarcasm
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
by Drizzt396 on Dec 4, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
utah's win over alabama technically might be a nuetral site but......
everybody on the west coast would agree it was a serious homefield advantage for alabama. i don’t even know if utah has ever played a game in a dome. my memory only goes back about 20 years. only teams that it could be syracuse: carrier dome. idaho: kibbie dome. minnesota: metrodome but they built their own stadium on campus. tulane plays some games at their homefield and some in superdome. after utah’s bcs win the next best win in my opinion was wyoming over tennessee at their home field. both teams were having bad years and wyoming only average around 13 points a game that season. they were a 27 1/2 underdog. it was the year phillip fullmer resigned. i think the score was around 13-10.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Oct 3, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but...
I also counted UNLV’s Las Vegas Bowl win as a neutral site …
by utesfan100 on Oct 5, 2009 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wyoming sold its home field
The 2002 Wyoming Tennessee game was a home game for Wyoming. The game was originally scheduled to be played up there but the powers that be sold the game site to the city of Nashville. So while Tennessee typically draws more fans in the Music City than Vanderbilt does, that game was a neutral site game.
by Tennexile on Oct 14, 2009 5:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
By the standards used above, yes.
this is at least as neutral as the Las Vegas Bowl.
by utesfan100 on Oct 15, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm curious how much did they get?
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 7, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe 500k
In todays market it would have been close to $1 million
by Jeremy Mauss on Nov 7, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eyewitness.
I saw Utah, Wyoming, Air Force, and CSU from the Mountain West play in 2008. I also was at the Florida-South Carolina game, and have probably been to 30ish SEC games over the years. As a long-time CFB watcher, it’s not even close.
I’ll grant that this is anectodal evidence which doesn’t prove anything, but come on. An Alabama team with its spirit crushed by an SECCG loss to Florida and nothing left to play for against a Utah team playing the biggest game in program history doesn’t prove anything either.
I’ll allow the Mountain West has some fine athletes and some very good teams (TCU looks very good this year and I’m looking forward to seeing what they put on the field in Laramie in a couple weeks), but top-to-bottom the talent level isn’t there yet.
by wangalusa on Nov 6, 2009 11:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am going to stick with 4-2 in games decided my 7 points or more since 2001.
Nenar Nenar Nenar ; )
I am looking forward to what TCU puts on the field in a BCS bowl.
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
by utesfan100 on Nov 7, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Small sample
The games are a small sample size to really see how the leagues would stack up. We all know the SEC overall is a better league, but I still hate the ‘didnt want to be there’ argument that all big schools toss out when they lose to a lower team. Bama should have been excited the team had not been to a big time bowl since the 1993 Sugar Bowl.
by Jeremy Mauss on Nov 7, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm certainly no MWC hater (Go Pokes!)
but I know a lot of Bama fans and their season was over after the SECCG—losing that game and going to the Sugar Bowl (which doesn’t mean what it used to) was not something those fans and players get excited about. They are completely insane.
They failed to accomplish their biggest goal of the season, the ultimate aim for every team: winning their conference. You could see it on the field. The minute it was clear that Utah had come to play, Bama had no fight in ‘em. That’s a testament to how seriously Wittingham had his guys ready to play, but I think bowl games in general are a poor indicator of conference strength.
by wangalusa on Nov 7, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Awww the poor little whiny teenage girls didn't win prom queen
Alabama couldn’t come up with a less pathetic excuse?
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 7, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's an excuse.
Utah was, without a doubt, the much better team on the field that day. But my point is that anyone can win a one-off like that, especially when you’ve got a good team hitting a gutted bunch of players straight in the mouth for 60 minutes. It’s impressive, but doesn’t prove anything.
by wangalusa on Nov 7, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The fanpost doesn't say anything about one game
4-2 in games decided my 7 points or more since 2001, not to mention an overall winning record.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 7, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
your right about one thing motivation is key
nick saban was the one who opened up his mouth about utah and it’s qb. if alabama can’t get motivated for sugar bowl that shows alabama has no character or leadership. are you going to say the same thing if you play tebow again in sec cg. peace.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 7, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am most certainly
NOT a Bama fan. I’m just saying I understand why they lost that game. An unmotivated Bama squad is not as good as a Utah team out for blood.
by wangalusa on Nov 7, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand they were unmotivated
But I did not hear many people give Utah credit, but rather that Alabama was not motivated.
by Jeremy Mauss on Nov 7, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No qualifications.
Utah was better than Alabama last season. In fact MUCH better. Period.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 7, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there's anything that proves that.
As I said above, they were, in fact, MUCH better than Bama in the Sugar Bowl. That’s all we really know.
You can’t treat all games as equals, and they aren’t played in a vacuum.
I wouldn’t be surprised if, say, Bama beats Florida this year, and the Gators get beaten by whoever they play in their second-tier bowl. There’s nothing left to play for at that point.
by wangalusa on Nov 9, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True
Utah was better that day, and I think if they played a bunch it would be close to a 50/50 split slight edge to Bama in the long run.
by Jeremy Mauss on Nov 9, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record ...
I admit fully to cherry picking the stats.
Arguing the motivation in one excellent game of the ages is not going to work.
What about the fact that the top MWC teams appear in those games far more often than the top SEC teams?
Maybe I am throwing a stat out their to dare the top SEC teams to play the top MWC teams.
I only see one game that qualifies as a top MWC team playing a top SEC team. We all know who won that one.
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
by utesfan100 on Nov 7, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a youtube video recap of the Sugar Bowl.
I don’t remember which ute fan put it together, but it starts off with the three commentators for the game stating that they were at the Alabama practices and “anyone who thinks Alabama isn’t fired up for this game doesn’t know Coach Saban. They were practicing harder than I’ve ever seen”. The unmotivated excuse is just that, an excuse. They got punched in the mouth and then couldn’t believe it was a MWC team punching them in the mouth, so they came up with some excuse to explain it away. Utah was better than Alabama, period, and you play that game 10 times, Utah wins 9 of them. We had a much better offense than Alabama and our defense was too tough for them.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Nov 10, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
when utah jumped on alabama with those three quick td's and the cameraman slowly went
around the super dome the faces of the alabama fans said it all. we did not expect this! i thought they only skied in utah! one college looking woman was crying and so was the baby (her boyfriend) peace out.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The pregame coverage on our blog...
…certainly gave credit to Utah. We kept telling everyone: “This team could whip our ass” and they did.
by Nico2.0 on Nov 29, 2009 12:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good to know
A lot of casual fans figured ’Bama could show up and beat the Utes.
by Jeremy Mauss on Dec 1, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Panama City Florida
Casual Alabama football fan is a bit of an oxymoron.
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
by utesfan100 on Dec 5, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, the best MWC teams vs not the best SEC teams = MWC is better conference?
When you are in most cases comparing the best MWC team, against just any team in the SEC, even if they aren’t the best or close to it, then that is in itself grounds that your entire conclusion is false.
by cal n on Nov 17, 2009 4:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not sure where you're getting that.
BYU in 2001 and Utah in 2008 were the only “best” MWC teams on that list. BYU faced a horrible Mississippi State team, so let’s throw that one out the window. Utah played the SEC runner-up and a top-5 Alabama team and absolutely destroyed them, so I think that one counts.
As for the others, well . . .
2000 UNLV was 8-5
2001 UNLV was 4-7
2002 Wyoming was 2-10
2003 TCU was 11-2 in CUSA and played a horrible Vandy team, so maybe counts as “best MWC team” although Utah was 10-2 that year.
2004 Wyoming was 7-5
2004 UNLV was 2-9
2005 Wyoming was 4-7 but 1-1 against the SEC
2006 Air Force was 4-8
2008 Wyoming was 4-8 and got their coach fired
So three of those teams were the “best” of the MWC and several of them were horrible MWC teams that still managed to beat SEC teams. And when the best MWC team matched the best SEC team, the only time that happened, the MWC came out on top.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Nov 17, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
best win after utah's destruction over bama was wyoming's win over tennessee
they were 27.5 dogs and won 13-10. that was the year wyoming average 12 points a game. it’s true phillip fulmer was resigning but the game was in knoxville. the points were a no brainer but if you put 100 bucks on moneyline you would have gotten 1250 back.
yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 20, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a huge MWC supporter...
but I think this column is just poking fun. There’s no way it can be serious, e.g. the little wink.
Vanderbilt and Mississippi State are the annual doormats of the SEC (+Kentucky). Ole Miss from 2004-2007 are rebuilding and/or destruction years depending on what perspective you take of the coach(es) at the time. Tennessee was embarassing in 2008 (beating only the doormats and some non-conference crappers). Arkansas in 2000 is a 6-6 (3 SEC wins) team for which becoming bowl eligible was a Cinderella story and only South Carolina has a worse bowl record than they do.
All that being said, the SEC is still the best. In addition to asking the good Lord to help the Lobos next year, I am also hoping that Nebraska beats Texas and Alabama beats Florida so that TCU can hand Alabama its second spanking in as many years. Then let’s bring on basketball season.
Stawp g’tin tuchee-feelie, zzzEmoGoestzzz. I dun’t lyke noin ur Emoshuns!
by Role Player on Dec 2, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember its a small sample size
In those cases yes, but overall of course not.
by Jeremy Mauss on Nov 19, 2009 5:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your right.
I need a larger sample size. Care to help make that happen?
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
by utesfan100 on Nov 24, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not really
In the end, I’m in favor a playoff. I will make the case that the top 3 deserve to be in the NCG more than TCU, because that is what the current system gives us, but in the end I am in favor of a playoff.
I don’t think these kinds of stats make anykind of a real case in things. It’s just way to selective.
by cal n on Dec 1, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This article misses an important point.
It’s not really relevant, especially in the BCS system, if the MWC is as strong as the SEC, stronger, or slightly weaker. The question people should be asking is if they’re stronger than the Big East, which is the weakest of the BCS conferences. I doubt you’ll find many, even Big East fans, who would argue the Big East is stronger. Also, based on heads-up action, I would argue the MWC is on par or slightly stronger than their neighbors, the Pac 10, and as for the ACC, well, they’re a basketball conference, not a football conference. Given those, I would eliminate the Big East from the BCS, and rank them in the top three with the Big 12 and the SEC. As for the order, I would rather see a Bama-TCU National Title because TCU is far stronger than Texas this year, and that could be answered on the field, where it belongs. Actually, if I were king, I would eliminate the BCS altogether and replace it with a playoff. Y’know, just like what a strong majority of the fans want.
Just because I'm an occasional to frequent troll, doesn't mean I lack a heart or don't have a point. Rocky Top Talk blog ban: I did it for teh lulz.
by Anarchon on Dec 17, 2009 4:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The ACC is not a basketball conference at all.
I don’t know if you’ve only started watching college football recently, but the ACC has over the years always been one of the top conferences, if not the top conference in some years.
Check out Florida St. and Miami in the 90’s. Florida St. especially. Good luck finding Florida St being ranked outside the top2, and even more luck finding them outside the top10.
From top to bottom the Big East is a better conference than the MWC. But TCU is better than Cincy IMO.
But really, I think the automatic crap is stupid. If a team is ranked #4, then they are ranked #4 for a reason. That should be the only thing that matters.
by cal n on Dec 18, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, check out Miami in the 1990s.
My favorite is the Miami team of 1992. How did they finish that season again? I forget scores like 34-13. Florida State is long past their prominence, and Miami (FL) is no longer even a proper afterthought, to the point where they are mentioned in the same breath as the other Miami, in Ohio. In case you haven’t noticed, tomorrow will mark 2010, which is not, as you may or may not be aware, part of the 1990s. The 2000s saw a marked decline in the power of the ACC in football, to the point that Duke has controlled their own destiny or had a decent shot in a sport other than basketball and lacrosse, and where both teams vying for the ACC title lost to teams tied for 3rd in the SEC East, the weaker half of the SEC btw, the week prior to the game. So you’re right. The ACC is not JUST a basketball conference. They’re also decent at lacrosse and knitting.
Just because I'm an occasional to frequent troll, doesn't mean I lack a heart or don't have a point. Rocky Top Talk blog ban: I did it for teh lulz.
by Anarchon on Dec 31, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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